that's exactly where my mind went the first time I heard "Buffy and the Vampires".
I thought so but I didn't want to assume.
I think it's actually one of the things that really works - there's really no place for belief in Buffy's life. She knows that some gods exist, because she's actually met them or at least seen their work first-hand, so believing in them becomes pointless.
Exactly. Not so long ago I not only claimed that I believed in God, but I KNEW without a doubt that God existed. Which is arrogant and nonsensical. (Recently Oliver Sacks reported that this phenomenon has been reported with epileptics, so at least I have an excuse. *lol*) But there's a huge difference in Buffy's experiential knowing, and my claim of "knowing".
And even if Buffy went to heaven (or a heaven) I don't see why that would prove the existence of any particular god. If there's countless hell dimensions, why not heavens?
Tara says as much. I don't see what the difficulty is in this concept.
And I didn't mean that I've changed my opinion re: Holden's remarks and Buffy's reply in CWDP by my use of the past tense; I meant that was my immediate assumption when I watched it last year and still is. I quite like that the show plays with/raises that distinction.
And Buffy's answer is that she's never seen any sign that He - the god actually called God - either exists or doesn't.
"Note to self: religion, freaky." If I made a list of my favorite "Buffyisms", that would be on it.
The common definition of "god" that we use in traditionally monotheist cultures almost seems a bit narrow.
And, pervasive: "Thou shall honor no other gods but me" is the first Commandment, isn't it? it's been a remarkably effective bit of PR and a device for thought and behavior control. (Reading the old testament was an eye-opener: the commands from God to the Hebrews to completely destroy their enemies, cut open the wombs of pregnant mothers and dash the babies against the rocks, etc.) God didn't create "Man" in his image; humans create gods according to their current needs.
(See also Captain America's comments about Thor.)
The movie or the comics? Not familiar with either.
(And then there's the question at what point an increasingly powerful human gets classed as a god. A very early draft of this fic had Faith muse that when Willow says a prayer in Hebrew over a fallen Slayer, Faith's not sure if she's praying or just shooting the breeze with a colleague.)
Are you referring to the story you recently posted? I confess I haven't read it yet, but that point sounds very "Faith" (hah).
BTW I think I've only seen one or two other fics (one by Annie Sewell Jenkins) that explicitly has Willow reciting or performing a Jewish prayer or ritual, but her religion is hardly dealt with. A lot of fans call her and Tara "Wiccans" but that's not explicitly stated either - I don't really see Willow as Wiccan (a specific "earth religion" that has many offshoots. a lot of people, and the show itself, seem to use terms interchangeably. Does Tara ever say she's a Wiccan in-canon explicitly or is that fanon assumption?;
even after her time with Giles I'm not sure I'd call Willow "religious"/WIccan per se, just that she has a greater (expanded) moral sense and awareness beyond herself, and awareness of repercussions ( "thesis/antithesis/synthesis" manifested in physical action.)
Another canon-ish question: When fans call Willow a "goddess" are they basing that from Kennedy's "You are a goddess" in Chosen, which I didn't take literally - I've called women-friends "goddess" (and even Norbert, before I knew his gender!) by which I mean "force of nature". It's a compliment. Or are they basing that off the comics, and again - is it meant literally, or is it playing with the razor-fine line distinction that you speak of?
no subject
I thought so but I didn't want to assume.
I think it's actually one of the things that really works - there's really no place for belief in Buffy's life. She knows that some gods exist, because she's actually met them or at least seen their work first-hand, so believing in them becomes pointless.
Exactly. Not so long ago I not only claimed that I believed in God, but I KNEW without a doubt that God existed. Which is arrogant and nonsensical. (Recently Oliver Sacks reported that this phenomenon has been reported with epileptics, so at least I have an excuse. *lol*) But there's a huge difference in Buffy's experiential knowing, and my claim of "knowing".
And even if Buffy went to heaven (or a heaven) I don't see why that would prove the existence of any particular god. If there's countless hell dimensions, why not heavens?
Tara says as much. I don't see what the difficulty is in this concept.
And I didn't mean that I've changed my opinion re: Holden's remarks and Buffy's reply in CWDP by my use of the past tense; I meant that was my immediate assumption when I watched it last year and still is. I quite like that the show plays with/raises that distinction.
And Buffy's answer is that she's never seen any sign that He - the god actually called God - either exists or doesn't.
"Note to self: religion, freaky." If I made a list of my favorite "Buffyisms", that would be on it.
The common definition of "god" that we use in traditionally monotheist cultures almost seems a bit narrow.
And, pervasive: "Thou shall honor no other gods but me" is the first Commandment, isn't it? it's been a remarkably effective bit of PR and a device for thought and behavior control. (Reading the old testament was an eye-opener: the commands from God to the Hebrews to completely destroy their enemies, cut open the wombs of pregnant mothers and dash the babies against the rocks, etc.) God didn't create "Man" in his image; humans create gods according to their current needs.
(See also Captain America's comments about Thor.)
The movie or the comics? Not familiar with either.
(And then there's the question at what point an increasingly powerful human gets classed as a god. A very early draft of this fic had Faith muse that when Willow says a prayer in Hebrew over a fallen Slayer, Faith's not sure if she's praying or just shooting the breeze with a colleague.)
Are you referring to the story you recently posted? I confess I haven't read it yet, but that point sounds very "Faith" (hah).
BTW I think I've only seen one or two other fics (one by Annie Sewell Jenkins) that explicitly has Willow reciting or performing a Jewish prayer or ritual, but her religion is hardly dealt with. A lot of fans call her and Tara "Wiccans" but that's not explicitly stated either - I don't really see Willow as Wiccan (a specific "earth religion" that has many offshoots. a lot of people, and the show itself, seem to use terms interchangeably. Does Tara ever say she's a Wiccan in-canon explicitly or is that fanon assumption?;
even after her time with Giles I'm not sure I'd call Willow "religious"/WIccan per se, just that she has a greater (expanded) moral sense and awareness beyond herself, and awareness of repercussions ( "thesis/antithesis/synthesis" manifested in physical action.)
Another canon-ish question: When fans call Willow a "goddess" are they basing that from Kennedy's "You are a goddess" in Chosen, which I didn't take literally - I've called women-friends "goddess" (and even Norbert, before I knew his gender!) by which I mean "force of nature". It's a compliment. Or are they basing that off the comics, and again - is it meant literally, or is it playing with the razor-fine line distinction that you speak of?