it was Buffy's arguement that faith need to go to prison, wasn't it? on AtS (I thought they overdid the "angry bitchy buffy" characterization, when it was Riley throwing stones at the end of WAY, not Buffy; I thought the point was that Buffy like Faith "walked a mile in someone else's shoes" and really got to see how it felt to be Faith, to be treated like worthless garbage; little did I know it was the start of "damn the characterization just get them onto the other show!"
Probably PT, but blackfrancine wrote a comment a couple of years ago that she thought both Faith and Buffy expressed and understood love through service, and that it might be something common to all Slayers. I think she meant the Mayor and Faith, but I also see that in Buffy and Faith S7 esp the end of EP. It's easy to hate on that episode but Buffy's handoff of leadership and Faith's acceptance of it is an amazing moment. Faith is going to keep her promise to Buffy; it's an act of love whether it's stated explicitly or not; just as Buffy keeping her promise to Joyce re: Dawn and protecting the world is an act of love, etc. Faith's is smaller and therefore easier to overlook, IMO, but for her it's a big deal.
It's a pretty tricky issue to justify morally, especially since I'm very much anti-death penalty IRL, but on the other hand... Once he's dead, what's the moral argument for feeling sorry about it? In my headcanon, Willow would feel sorry for having killed Warren, but not for him being dead (again, season 7: "I killed him for a reason!") Which again raises the question if we have morals to feel sorry for others, or for ourselves...
Yes I'm anti-death penalty too, and I have a certain moral view of myself, so when I am vicariously horrified and thrilled by Warren's death? I feel like I have to look myself in the mirror. Have you seen Lars von Trier's Dogville? It's really rather brilliant in that it's about a group of townspeople who essentially take their anger and frustrations out on one woman who is a willing martyr (because she feels ashamed of who she is and guilty about her past, an attempt to atone), and these "good people" all indulge in horrible acts, but don't see themselves as horrible. What I found interesting is how ANGRY viewers and critics got at the film, at von Trier, etc etc (hell, I got pissed at the voice-over narration) and in a lesser way acted like the townspeople in giving vent to their anger.
Why is it that Willow's murder of Rack is forgotten in S7 btw? "She killed a man" - is that meant generically? I assume it means, literally, one man. Again, he's kind of pond scum in the social scheme of SD, so it's easy to not care, but that opens up a whole can of worms. I think somewhere in the Bible Jesus says that even sinners forgive - ie value - the people they love. It's when we fail to see the value of human beings we don't love, when we label them as I just labeled Rack (pond scum) to dismiss them that we have a problem.
I really do like TKIM for the way that Willow is able to provide a conduit, so to speak, for Warren to express anguish, despair and regret. The way he (Adam Busch) cries "I'm sorry I'm sorry come back!" guts me EVERY SINGLE TIME. Redemption isn't possible; sometimes perhaps remorse is the closest we can come, but it doesn't erase or undo anything. ("Can't say I'm sorry." - BY) I think that points out the flaw in redemption arcs even as the season pumps redemption arcs for Spike, Faith and Andrew for all they're worth.
while Willow feels guilty for not feeling guilty enough.
Good point. I notice that a lot of fandom wants her to feel more guilty, to explicitly express remorse for what she did to Tara - to beg forgiveness when Tara herself never demanded it (onscreen). Tara wanted her to not do it again. I think the same is true in fandom with Buffy and Spike - a lot of people feel that Buffy didn't apologize enough, that it didn't count in AYW, they want the character on her knees and that isn't the character and that's not what Spike wanted from her, ever.
no subject
Probably PT, but
It's a pretty tricky issue to justify morally, especially since I'm very much anti-death penalty IRL, but on the other hand... Once he's dead, what's the moral argument for feeling sorry about it? In my headcanon, Willow would feel sorry for having killed Warren, but not for him being dead (again, season 7: "I killed him for a reason!") Which again raises the question if we have morals to feel sorry for others, or for ourselves...
Yes I'm anti-death penalty too, and I have a certain moral view of myself, so when I am vicariously horrified and thrilled by Warren's death? I feel like I have to look myself in the mirror. Have you seen Lars von Trier's Dogville? It's really rather brilliant in that it's about a group of townspeople who essentially take their anger and frustrations out on one woman who is a willing martyr (because she feels ashamed of who she is and guilty about her past, an attempt to atone), and these "good people" all indulge in horrible acts, but don't see themselves as horrible. What I found interesting is how ANGRY viewers and critics got at the film, at von Trier, etc etc (hell, I got pissed at the voice-over narration) and in a lesser way acted like the townspeople in giving vent to their anger.
Why is it that Willow's murder of Rack is forgotten in S7 btw? "She killed a man" - is that meant generically? I assume it means, literally, one man. Again, he's kind of pond scum in the social scheme of SD, so it's easy to not care, but that opens up a whole can of worms. I think somewhere in the Bible Jesus says that even sinners forgive - ie value - the people they love. It's when we fail to see the value of human beings we don't love, when we label them as I just labeled Rack (pond scum) to dismiss them that we have a problem.
I really do like TKIM for the way that Willow is able to provide a conduit, so to speak, for Warren to express anguish, despair and regret. The way he (Adam Busch) cries "I'm sorry I'm sorry come back!" guts me EVERY SINGLE TIME. Redemption isn't possible; sometimes perhaps remorse is the closest we can come, but it doesn't erase or undo anything. ("Can't say I'm sorry." - BY) I think that points out the flaw in redemption arcs even as the season pumps redemption arcs for Spike, Faith and Andrew for all they're worth.
while Willow feels guilty for not feeling guilty enough.
Good point. I notice that a lot of fandom wants her to feel more guilty, to explicitly express remorse for what she did to Tara - to beg forgiveness when Tara herself never demanded it (onscreen). Tara wanted her to not do it again. I think the same is true in fandom with Buffy and Spike - a lot of people feel that Buffy didn't apologize enough, that it didn't count in AYW, they want the character on her knees and that isn't the character and that's not what Spike wanted from her, ever.