beer_good_foamy (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beer_good_foamy) wrote2009-07-07 03:26 pm
beer_good_foamy) wrote2009-07-07 03:26 pm
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Comics post, part 1
I haven't written anything about the comics in a while, so I might as well do a roundup of the latest couple of Season 8 installments. But since #26 is taking its sweet time getting here so I haven't actually read it yet, I'll do it in two parts.
Tales of the Vampires. Now, this wasn't bad in any way, in fact it was pretty damn good as a stand-alone original fic, but just a bit frustrating. It was hinted that this one-shot would finally address the alleged paradigm shift in the Buffyverse - that billions of people now love vampires unconditionally while those fighting them are hated and feared. You know, the thing that's been mentioned 3 or 4 times in passing in the last 5 issues of the comics.
When toothsome vampire Harmony Kendall landed her own reality show the world changed for everyone – humans, demons and Slayers alike. Quite seemlessly, humanity accepted – no, welcomed the existence of supernatural beings in their midst. (...) No one saw this coming.
No one? Funny, considering that the basic plot boils down to a repeat of something that was already firmly established in the TV series years ago ("Lie To Me", "Into The Woods", "Salvage", Gunn's entire pre-s3 arc, etc): that there are outsider groups who are well aware of vampires, that there are bored emo kids on the fringes of society who think vampires are cool and like to get their blood sucked, and that once you're turned into a vampire you basically become an asshole who's usually better off dust lest you kill (and metaphorically rape) your friends and family. There's one or two comments about vampires and humans having become "symbiotic", but it never moves beyond the settings or interactions that we already knew from the TV shows – certainly nothing trying to explain how the overwhelming majority of this not just fairly intelligent, but also inherently suspicious and rather xenophobic race we call humans supposedly immediately accepted one of the most well-known fictional monsters to their collective bosom based only on an MTV reality show. No one saw it coming? It's supposedly here, and I still don't see it. It's nice that the comics use some of the storylines from the TV series, I guess, but it's a weird setup; we're not supposed to wonder too much about the bits where the comics differ quite a lot from the TV series, but we're supposed to believe that some other aspects of the story make up huge "game changers" despite looking remarkably like business as usual. But I suppose we'll just have to accept Allie's comment that "magic of some kind" is involved (does this story make any sense at all to those who don't read blurbs, letter columns and Q&As? Do those readers even know that all of humanity supposedly "welcomed" vampires?) and eventually Willow will do a counterspell and that'll be that.
That said, it was pretty well-written and made good use of the idea - the TV series rarely showed us the voluntary victims' and subsequent vampires' POV, so that was nice even if it's rather bleak. Strip it of its supernatural trappings and the setting is really Clerks (or possibly SubUrbia) with the original ending, where Dante gets shot and killed for no good reason, and without the humour. Even if I'm left wondering (much like the Kenny thing) if we're really supposed to sympathise with this particular monster. Because, y'know, I really don't. As far as I can tell, the message here is "Jay was an idiot, vampires are still as bad as they ever were, and anyone with half a brain should be able to see that." If any vampires at all, anywhere in the world, are indeed following Harmony's party line that they don't kill people (which Jay buys into even as he's killing his best friend – self-delusion is an important part of any Jossverse), they seem to be in the minority. We're certainly yet to see any of them trying to go the straight and narrow for real, and this issue makes a pretty big point of why they neither will nor can; as both Jay and May show quite clearly, they don't even understand what it means to not kill people. It's not so much a continued muddling of the post-Spike waters as a return to showing them as monsters - not because they're necessarily evil, but because they cannot tell the difference.
Alex is an interesting, if not very developed character, stressing again (far better than in the dismal #24) that Slayers don't really get to not be Slayers even if they don't want to; and I really don't think it's coincidental that the whole thing ends with her, once again, being turned into something else without getting a say-so. If this were headed towards a conclusion in which Buffy takes back the "Chosen" spell, which I don't for a second think it is, then this comic would seem to be a pretty big indication that that would be a good thing. But of course, as many people pointed out after Scott Allie's recent "what if" scenario, TV!Buffy's strength was always that when faced with the two crappy alternatives A and B, she usually managed to find a C.
The message so far seems to be: no, Slayers don't draw strength from each other. But as we already know from the show, and as this shows, they don't survive in complete isolation either. So what's path C here?
The Dark HorseMyspace Presents was hysterically fun, even if the wedding scene was weird with no groom present. As one of the very few peeks into Buffy's head we've had throughout Season 8, it's definitely interesting. Even if it's mostly played for laughs, it's got some interesting darker themes woven in. Buffy, once again, is disconnected from everything, doesn't draw strength from her army, yada yada yada. Her lovers hook up with each other rather than her (a pretty strong indication that she knows Spike joined the cast of Angel, perhaps), and none of her actual family show up at her dream wedding – not Dawn, not Joyce, not Hank, not Giles; Xander is standing best man for Warren, Willow is being held by Dark Willow, and Tara blames Buffy for being dead. And both the bride's and the groom's sides are full of monsters. Apparently there's some debate as to whether this is a Slayer dream or just a normal dream – who cares? All Jossverse dreams are prophetic to some degree, all of them contain a lot of sneaky character study, and they usually have a dream character who guides and narrates the story for the dreamer. Here, the role previously filled by Tara, or the First Slayer, or Cordelia, or Ethan, is played by... Caleb. Who essentially tells her that she belongs here in the dark dirt, with him. Yeah, Buffy really needs a vacation. Nice to finally see the characters looking like themselves, too. Plus, hey, Buffy knows Angel and Spike better than just about anybody, so her opinion has to count for something, right? ;-)
Still... it's been about a year since we had any advancement of the semi-titular Twilight plot, and it's been about 6 months since we had any overarching plot involving a major character to speak of at all (and we don't even know the significance of that plot yet). Fortunately, the upcoming arc seems to promise something along those lines, even if the Slayers messing with South Korea's ability to defend itself has some unfortunate RL connotations. Maybe Satsu turns out to be one of Kim Jong Il's spies? Maybe Oz has gone evil along with Riley? Maybe Willow, taking a tip from Dawn, asks Warren's forgiveness? Well, I'm sure most of you already know, but for now I'll have to wait to find out. But Part II of this post will be around eventually.
Tales of the Vampires. Now, this wasn't bad in any way, in fact it was pretty damn good as a stand-alone original fic, but just a bit frustrating. It was hinted that this one-shot would finally address the alleged paradigm shift in the Buffyverse - that billions of people now love vampires unconditionally while those fighting them are hated and feared. You know, the thing that's been mentioned 3 or 4 times in passing in the last 5 issues of the comics.
When toothsome vampire Harmony Kendall landed her own reality show the world changed for everyone – humans, demons and Slayers alike. Quite seemlessly, humanity accepted – no, welcomed the existence of supernatural beings in their midst. (...) No one saw this coming.
No one? Funny, considering that the basic plot boils down to a repeat of something that was already firmly established in the TV series years ago ("Lie To Me", "Into The Woods", "Salvage", Gunn's entire pre-s3 arc, etc): that there are outsider groups who are well aware of vampires, that there are bored emo kids on the fringes of society who think vampires are cool and like to get their blood sucked, and that once you're turned into a vampire you basically become an asshole who's usually better off dust lest you kill (and metaphorically rape) your friends and family. There's one or two comments about vampires and humans having become "symbiotic", but it never moves beyond the settings or interactions that we already knew from the TV shows – certainly nothing trying to explain how the overwhelming majority of this not just fairly intelligent, but also inherently suspicious and rather xenophobic race we call humans supposedly immediately accepted one of the most well-known fictional monsters to their collective bosom based only on an MTV reality show. No one saw it coming? It's supposedly here, and I still don't see it. It's nice that the comics use some of the storylines from the TV series, I guess, but it's a weird setup; we're not supposed to wonder too much about the bits where the comics differ quite a lot from the TV series, but we're supposed to believe that some other aspects of the story make up huge "game changers" despite looking remarkably like business as usual. But I suppose we'll just have to accept Allie's comment that "magic of some kind" is involved (does this story make any sense at all to those who don't read blurbs, letter columns and Q&As? Do those readers even know that all of humanity supposedly "welcomed" vampires?) and eventually Willow will do a counterspell and that'll be that.
That said, it was pretty well-written and made good use of the idea - the TV series rarely showed us the voluntary victims' and subsequent vampires' POV, so that was nice even if it's rather bleak. Strip it of its supernatural trappings and the setting is really Clerks (or possibly SubUrbia) with the original ending, where Dante gets shot and killed for no good reason, and without the humour. Even if I'm left wondering (much like the Kenny thing) if we're really supposed to sympathise with this particular monster. Because, y'know, I really don't. As far as I can tell, the message here is "Jay was an idiot, vampires are still as bad as they ever were, and anyone with half a brain should be able to see that." If any vampires at all, anywhere in the world, are indeed following Harmony's party line that they don't kill people (which Jay buys into even as he's killing his best friend – self-delusion is an important part of any Jossverse), they seem to be in the minority. We're certainly yet to see any of them trying to go the straight and narrow for real, and this issue makes a pretty big point of why they neither will nor can; as both Jay and May show quite clearly, they don't even understand what it means to not kill people. It's not so much a continued muddling of the post-Spike waters as a return to showing them as monsters - not because they're necessarily evil, but because they cannot tell the difference.
Alex is an interesting, if not very developed character, stressing again (far better than in the dismal #24) that Slayers don't really get to not be Slayers even if they don't want to; and I really don't think it's coincidental that the whole thing ends with her, once again, being turned into something else without getting a say-so. If this were headed towards a conclusion in which Buffy takes back the "Chosen" spell, which I don't for a second think it is, then this comic would seem to be a pretty big indication that that would be a good thing. But of course, as many people pointed out after Scott Allie's recent "what if" scenario, TV!Buffy's strength was always that when faced with the two crappy alternatives A and B, she usually managed to find a C.
The message so far seems to be: no, Slayers don't draw strength from each other. But as we already know from the show, and as this shows, they don't survive in complete isolation either. So what's path C here?
The Dark Horse
Still... it's been about a year since we had any advancement of the semi-titular Twilight plot, and it's been about 6 months since we had any overarching plot involving a major character to speak of at all (and we don't even know the significance of that plot yet). Fortunately, the upcoming arc seems to promise something along those lines, even if the Slayers messing with South Korea's ability to defend itself has some unfortunate RL connotations. Maybe Satsu turns out to be one of Kim Jong Il's spies? Maybe Oz has gone evil along with Riley? Maybe Willow, taking a tip from Dawn, asks Warren's forgiveness? Well, I'm sure most of you already know, but for now I'll have to wait to find out. But Part II of this post will be around eventually.
no subject
Maybe you read a different version of the comic than me. There’s one comment that vampires and humans are symbiotic but it’s attached to May’s explanation that vampires can live openly as long as humans trust them mot to kill. Turning isn’t counted as killing by ordinary humans like Jacob’s mother – as far as she’s concerned vampire Jacob is still her little boy. We see vampire’s feed, we see them sire but by what we’ve been shown is that by the ordinary human definition of killing (see previous sentence) no humans are killed in the course of this issue. It could be that these attitudes aren’t representative but it’s a story. Why tell it if it doesn’t tell us anything about the world? Moreover, the world actually makes sense if you assume that Jacob’s town is typical. The difference between this and Lie to Me is that the world has changed enough for Chanterele and Co to have real evidence for their view that vampires are no more dangerous than drunk drivers and a cleaner safer alternative to drugs.
Certainly nothing trying to explain how the overwhelming majority of this not just fairly intelligent, but also inherently suspicious and rather xenophobic race we call humans supposedly immediately accepted one of the most well-known fictional monsters to their collective bosom based only on an MTV reality show.
In the real world sure but the Buffyverse ain’t real. In the real world it’s simply not credible that humanity could ignore the existence of vampires and demons if they were real and as depicted on the show. If you can accept that fiction for the sake of the story, then the idea that most people have shifted from convincing themselves that demons aren’t real (in the face of all the evidence we’ve seen to the contrary) to convincing themselves that vampires are harmless hardly seems a problem.
Alex is an interesting, if not very developed character, stressing again (far better than in the dismal #24) that Slayers don't really get to not be Slayers even if they don't want to; and I really don't think it's coincidental that the whole thing ends with her, once again, being turned into something else without getting a say-so.
In #24 (which I agree was dismal) the Slayer who says she never wanted to be Slayer turns out only to be saying it because her fight wasn’t going so well and there in the first place because she wanted to get out there andfight the good fight. Alex wasn’t a Slayer to all intents and purposes until she staked May in a very human fit of jealous rage and regretted it only because she didn’t want to fight Jacob. Identity’s a complicated thing. I’d guess most of us have wanted not to be who we are at some point but it’s rarely a long term solution to anything.
no subject
There seems to be a lot of that lately, doesn't it? ;-)
Turning isn’t counted as killing by ordinary humans like Jacob’s mother – as far as she’s concerned vampire Jacob is still her little boy.
So she's even further removed from reality than even William's mother or Liam's father were. And they both lived in a world predating Dracula.
It could be that these attitudes aren’t representative but it’s a story. Why tell it if it doesn’t tell us anything about the world?
Why claim that it constitutes a change from the old ways when it looks exactly like the old ways? Also, re: Jacob's town being typical, see my response to
The difference between this and Lie to Me is that the world has changed enough for Chanterele and Co to have real evidence for their view that vampires are no more dangerous than drunk drivers and a cleaner safer alternative to drugs.
If by "evidence for" you mean "evidence against", since even Chanterelle was smart enough to immediately see that she was in deep deep shit the second she laid eyes on a vampire. Surely someone would pick up on the fact that the people killed by vampires are actually, y'know, killed? As in no heart rate, blood lust, tendency to kill others who in turn... etc?
If you can accept that fiction for the sake of the story, then the idea that most people have shifted from convincing themselves that demons aren’t real (in the face of all the evidence we’ve seen to the contrary) to convincing themselves that vampires are harmless hardly seems a problem.
I really disagree - I don't think that's comparable at all. I always thought that whatever the different rules, human psychology in the Buffyverse had at least a passing similarity to that in our world. It's a fantastical 'verse, not a surrealist one. And in TV canon, admitting that monsters existed almost always led - if not immediately - to a realisation that they were a problem. Especially among the groups that actually met them face to face on a regular basis (Gunn's crew, for instance).
Identity’s a complicated thing. I’d guess most of us have wanted not to be who we are at some point but it’s rarely a long term solution to anything.
Very true, but not all of us want to be who someone else has unilaterally decided that we need to be.
no subject
But did they live in a world predating 'Twilight', 'Anita Blake' and 'True Blood'? Vampires as sympathetic, glamorous and just-dangerous-enough-to-be-cool are a modern concept far removed from the traditional view of a blood-drinking corpse.
I think there are a lot of people underestimating the effect it would have on society if we suddenly discovered a way to live forever. Stay beautiful and young and strong, and the only catch was that you couldn't stand in direct sunlight, and you'd need to adopt a different diet.
Sure, I wish S8 went into more detail on what's actually going on; the pace did seem to slow down a lot over the last five issues. I suspect there's a big reveal/plot twist coming up to show Twilight is behind it all, which explains the lack of detail now.
even Chanterelle was smart enough to immediately see that she was in deep deep shit the second she laid eyes on a vampire
Don't you mean "the second she was grabbed by a vampire who buried his teeth in her throat"? Because the first was pretty much simultaneous with the second.
And in TV canon, admitting that monsters existed almost always led - if not immediately - to a realisation that they were a problem
I thought that particular conceit had been dropped by the time of 'The Prom', pretty much. After that demons and the supernatural seemed more like an open secret that everybody knew about but nobody talked about. Willy's Bar and Caritas operated quite openly. Clem could drive his car down the middle of Main Street. The Los Angeles DA kept shamans on call.
Oh, and:
Slayers don't really get to not be Slayers even if they don't want to
How do you reach that conclusion from Alex's story?
no subject
Absolutely. For starters, every religious leader would be dead set against it. ;-)
I suspect there's a big reveal/plot twist coming up to show Twilight is behind it all, which explains the lack of detail now.
In which case, like I said, they only need to break that spell. No harm, no foul.
Don't you mean "the second she was grabbed by a vampire who buried his teeth in her throat"? Because the first was pretty much simultaneous with the second.
Fine. So Jay should have realised it then.
I thought that particular conceit had been dropped by the time of 'The Prom', pretty much.
Not really. I thought it was pretty much the central conceit of Angel, funnily enough; yes, people look the other way and not all demons are evil, but the ones that are evil are treated as a problem. Kate's arc was about what?
How do you reach that conclusion from Alex's story?
She couldn't not be a Slayer when she saw how it was impacting her life. She saw that demons were real and they were killing people she cared about. She did what she had to. She died.
no subject
She knew that demons were real all along. She didn't like Jay letting Sebastian drink his blood, but she didn't do anything about it. She didn't try to kill Sebastian. She didn't try to kill any of the vampires, except for the one who stole her boyfriend.
She attacked May in a fit of jealous rage - no noble motives to defend humanity here - then basically gave up and let Alex kill her.
I don't see how any of that shows "being a Slayer" impacted her life in any way until the very end.
no subject
True, but that one impact is pretty significant in that she's killed as a result. As the saying goes, you can't just be a little pregnant.
no subject
In fact, being a Slayer gave her the chance to not die at the end, but she chose not to use it. She could have saved herself by accepting her power as a Slayer and fighting Jay: but she preferred to remain a normal girl and die.
no subject
She slayed a vampire who'd killed her best friend, you mean. And had she been a normal girl, she most likely wouldn't have thought herself able to.
In fact, being a Slayer gave her the chance to not die at the end
True. I'm not one of those saying the "Chosen" was a Very Bad Thing. I'm not saying that being a Slayer in and of itself inevitably got her killed. But since she was a normal girl at heart, she wasn't able to be that cold. (Much like Buffy couldn't in "Innocence", for instance.) She had the physical strength, the bare bones of the mission, but not the wisdom required to guide her hand, to tackle her own demons.
And don't tell me you don't see any parallel, any significance in her first saying that she never wanted to be a Slayer, only to then yet again be turned into something we know she doesn't want to be? "Here's where you make a choice", Buffy told two dozen girls out of 1800, having already made the decision to turn them into Slayers. "This isn't about her choice. It's about my choice", says Jay and turns Alex into a monster. "This isn't real, but I just wanna..." "...having the courage to feel something." Where do we go from here?
no subject
And yet still walking and talking and annoying. Life is more than a muscle reflex. Harmony looks pretty lively (and on TV). Chanterelle saw the vampires killing people as in ripping their throats out and leaving the bodies to rot. This comic tells us they don't do that anymore. They suck but they don't inhale. They tidy up after themselves. Sure it's misinformation as far as we the audience know but the general populace only know what they see on MTV.
I always thought that whatever the different rules, human psychology in the Buffyverse had at least a passing similarity to that in our world.
Then what happened to all the journalists, the scientists, the historians, the police anyone who's friends or family were victims of inexplicable and unsolved neck related crimes? The irredeemably stupid explanation may work for Sunnydale but worldwide? It's not credible that so many people would refuse to admit that something as pervasive and lethal as demonic activity simply never happened.
Very true, but not all of us want to be who someone else has unilaterally decided that we need to be.
Buffy didn't make anyone a potential. She gave them access to power they already had.
no subject
Well, exactly. And someone would pick up on that if it became common knowledge that vampires were killing people and turning them into more vampires.
Chanterelle saw the vampires killing people as in ripping their throats out and leaving the bodies to rot.
Actually, she realised it before then. In fact, thanks to Buffy, she never even had to see that. In fact, the only one who got killed in the end of "Lie to me" was turned.
the general populace only know what they see on MTV.
Which is a well-made point as satire on today's media world goes, but... c'mon. Even in the Season 8-verse, it's established that that's not the only medium there is. I'd be happy to accept that there's a large minority of morons who think vampires are cool, but everyone? What happened to all the journalists, the scientists, the historians, the police? ;-)
The irredeemably stupid explanation may work for Sunnydale but worldwide?
Which is why I thought it was an excellent idea for Buffy to never stray outside Sunnydale. Also, it was pretty heavily implied... make that outright stated that the hellmouth meant the supernatural activity was a lot more pervasive there than elsewhere.
She gave them access to power they already had.
And yet it's been clearly stated twice now that Slayers who try to not work as Slayers end up dead, and that those who try to do it on their own end up dead. Why tell it if it doesn’t tell us anything about the world? Also, the entire world are now hunting them for what they are, supposedly based on actions Buffy has taken since. She gave them access to power, yes, but she also gave them a ticket to persecution.
no subject
If (and this was my original point) they equated turning with killing, rather than simply changing, and if they had decided that vampire demonstrably were not the people they used to be despite looking and sounding and, in large part, acting entirely like them. Tales of the Vampires explicitly shows ordinary humans taking the opposite view. We as the audience can arbitrarily decide to ignore those people and call them morons but that’s not what’s presented in the text.
I'd be happy to accept that there's a large minority of morons who think vampires are cool, but everyone? What happened to all the journalists, the scientists, the historians, the police?
☺Exactly whatever’s happened to them in all the years of supernatural denial. Sure it takes a little suspension of disbelief but not of a kind we haven’t always had to make to follow the story. For me BtVS only ever made sense as magic realism never as straight fantasy – as I prefer magic realism that worked out just fine. That said the comic isn’t saying that literally everyone thinks vampires are cool. Jacob’s mother doesn’t seem to feel that way and Alex definitely didn’t.
Which is why I thought it was an excellent idea for Buffy to never stray outside Sunnydale. Also, it was pretty heavily implied... make that outright stated that the hellmouth meant the supernatural activity was a lot more pervasive there than elsewhere.
If supernatural goings on are rare outside of Sunnydale (and LA and New York and Tokyo and South Korean naval territory and Italy…) isn’t it more excusable that people are taking the word of serious American journalists (Anderson Cooper and Keith Olberman) as their best guide to what vampires are really like?
Alternatively, the world (or its significant uban areas, LA, New York , Tokyo etc) is more like Sunnydale writ large and in Sunnydale we found out that public ignorance was in fact actively cultivated by those in charge. Which would fit with what Lindsey told Angel about the soaky apocalypse and the contacts in high places that Twilight clearly has. Is it so difficult to accept that what we have here – what ‘s been shown here is a combination of general apathy (vampires exist but they don’t matter), an increase in active interest by the disaffected and sufficient of the media powers that be in Twilight’s pocket to spin critical focus away from vampires and onto Slayers? It’s the oldest trick in the political book. Scapegoat the external ‘terrorist’ threat and divert attention from the internal discontents that drive young men to
drinkbeing drunk from.And yet it's been clearly stated twice now that Slayers who try to not work as Slayers end up dead, and that those who try to do it on their own end up dead. Why tell it if it doesn’t tell us anything about the world?
Everybody dies. It tells us exactly what not!Buffy said in The Chain. “The real questions run deeper. Can I fight? Did I help? There is a chain between each and every one of us. You either feel its tug or you ignore it.” As times grow hard ignoring it gets harder. Eventually sleepwalking your life away in a Pleasantville dream stops being an option.
She gave them access to power, yes, but she also gave them a ticket to persecution.
Isn’t that blaming the Jews for the pogrom?
no subject
It really isn't.