beer_good_foamy

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#30

Yep, I wrote something about #30. It's more grumpy than snarky, but it has a poll.

Nothing was delivered
And I tell this truth to you,
Not out of spite or anger
But simply because it's true.
- Bob Dylan, "Nothing Was Delivered"

"My god, it sucks to be weak."
- Buffy Summers, Season 8 #30

#30, then. The end of the arc that, as Allie once again tells us in the letter column here, was supposed to leave us shocked, pissed off and scrambling for pitchforks (actual quote). The arc that was advertised with phrases that all said "people are going to die" (again, actual quote). The one that was so chock-full of reveals and developments that it had to be stretched to 5 issues and followed by no less than two standalones.

And it ends predictably, considering the plan they came up with: the former slayer army loses and everyone remains powerless. Geez, Buffyverse gods not playing by human rules, what were the odds? Despite the advance hype, however, we get no character deaths (apart from a bunch of redshirts nobody cares about), no big reveals, no new clues about who Twilight is (nor any more reasons to care), no major thematic or character developments that hadn't already been covered (well, maybe one, see below), and then at the end an advance hint of whatever will be the plot of the next arc. Like #29 before it, it's mostly stuff blowing up, and that bores me even in movies where it doesn't look like something out of My Little Pony like Jeanty's art tends to do. Yeah, I see now how they absolutely had to stretch this story out to five issues. Or six. Or seven, or however many it'll end up being.

I'm pretty sure I recall someone hinting a few months ago that Twilight would be revealed in this issue, but of course the reveal has since been postponed yet again, so it's no big surprise that almost 3 years into the story we still know jack squat about him except that we know jack squat about him. Which apparently is supposed to make him interesting. That's not mystery, it's hide-and-go-seek. Given that his entire point is to be someone in disguise, and that none of the characters seem to want to know who he is, I stand by my prediction from last month: Twilight won't be revealed. At all. Ever.

Riley's confirmed as a triple agent (at least). Not a very useful one, since he hasn't actually done anything to help Buffy yet; I suppose all the redshirts he watched get killed without doing anything (or stop Twilight when he was standing right beside him) were considered acceptable losses, but hey, big picture. I'm sure we'll get a good explanation for what he's been up to and what his role is in Season 8 any decade now, his arc so far has been... non-existant, really.

But there is one very welcome thing about the issue: Buffy realises that simply saying she's the good guy makes absolutely no difference, and starts actually acting like it. For the first time in a bunch of issues, she seems to actually draw a reasonable conclusion, and her speech about "protecting everything that bleeds" is great. It's the kind of (rather obvious) reply to the "you're at war with the human race" challenge I've been waiting for for 30 issues now. Yay Buffy! A pity it's immediately followed by another 90-degree turn into the absurd, as...

Now, I'm guessing that Buffy being able to fly is the big thing that was supposed to piss us off. Of course,for it to piss anyone off it would have to have some significance, and so far I have no idea what it's supposed to do (and given the art, I wasn't even sure what it was supposed to be). I've seen some speculation that this is the buddhist thing where by giving up power, you get power. Which is nice for Buffy who gave up her power and is now Superman, and less so for all the others who gave up their power and are now either prisoners, killers, dead, or some combination thereof. I suppose that's why nobody who's not just cannon fodder bought it in this issue; having Buffy become a superbeing because Faith or Willow died might have been a hard sell.

No, it doesn't look like Season 8 is in a hurry to return to the relative realism of the TV show anytime soon. Maybe it'll make sense, maybe it won't, maybe Buffy will get herself a really spiffy cape and matching tights, but at least it continues Season 8's consistent trend of random transformations. I think a poll is in order.

[Poll #1482133]

So, this is where I would sum up the entire arc, but of course it's not over yet even though it's already one issue into overtime, so I have no idea what to write here. One idiot plot, two issues of some really good character introspection, and three issues of Bruckheimeresque fight scenes. Yeah, I know, this is all setup for something. That's what we said after "Predators and Prey" too, wasn't it? Come to think of it, that's what the Lost fans are still telling me years after I gave up on that series. And Season 8 hasn't even gotten to the magical polar bears yet.

General observations:
- They would have saved themselves a lot of trouble (and a lot of nameless dead Slayers, if anyone's expected to care) by surrendering right away when it became obvious that the fight was unwinnable (about two issues ago). Just sayin'.
- And Twilight is now officially commanding US soldiers in battle. On PRC territory. With nobody questioning it. Huh.
- The goddesses were said to want to kill everyone and then move on to the next valley. Except then they move on without killing everyone. Oh well.
- Allie confirms that the Slayers in Tibet aren't "ALL the Slayers (…) there are still cells in other countries"; so much for the argument that Buffy and her gang had no choice but to go with Operation Sitting Duck or die. In short, it retains its title as Dumbest Tactic Ever.
- Has the "Chosen" spell been permanently undone now? Seems like. Should make some people happy, I guess. I was pretty sure Joss wouldn't do that, and I'm still not sure he will.
- Also, there's the...

...You know what? I think I'm done. I don't care who Twilight is, I have no interest in spending another year on this only to see Buffy shoehorned into Fray, and as for Buffy's newfound Powers Of Sudden Plot Device, I gave up Superman when I was 14. I keep hoping the comic will somehow reconnect with the show, and it keeps moving further away (deliberately, apparently). I keep hoping something will click and everything will make sense, and it keeps getting more random. I keep hoping the story will match the admittedly interesting themes being explored, and it keeps breaking its own back to fit the metaphor.

I love Buffy because, as fantastical and as silly as it got, it was always grounded in some semblance of reality, some sort of earth logic in a fantasy setting; if you do A, you can reasonably expect B to follow (except then C happens instead because A isn't as simple as you think, but there's still cause and effect). It was about the challenges of everyday life. It's not that Buffy now has comic-book superhero powers, it's that... to paraphrase a good TV writer, if shit just happens, if nothing the characters do matters, then nothing matters. I don't feel the logic of it, I have no way to tell what anything is supposed to mean, understand why anyone does what they do. Does that make it a bad story? Maybe, maybe not, I'm sure it's a lot of fun for people who enjoy that sort of story, and good luck to you. But despite Allie hoping that it would piss us off, all it does is bore me; what pisses me off is that after 30+ issues, all it manages to do is bore me. And so...

Grr. Argh.

The fewer words you have to waste on this,
The sooner you can go.
- Bob Dylan, "Nothing Was Delivered"

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Eh. I mostly watch it for the roller-coaster fun of it.

Though I do think it improved greatly a couple of seasons ago when they went to ABC and said that they required a solid end date to plot to because otherwise they were stuck dragging things out and adding filler. Two seasons ago they set a definitive end date/set number of episodes and have stuck to it. That tightened up the plot IMHO. Perhaps something similar would help Whedon. Sometimes having a restrictions actually helps. Having limitless possibilities and a comics 'limitless' scope just leads to bloating.

I think it's about creating and bridging emotional distance.

Well, obviously, that too. Everything in Season 8 has been so far. And personally I'm bored with it being not so much a theme as just never-ending barrage of increasingly silly ways to create that distance. Why is Buffy in Scotland? Why is Dawn a giant? Why are Spike and Angel non-issues? Why are the only viable romantic partners - Riley, Xander, Satsu - unavailable to her? Why does Buffy hide out in Tibet? Why does Buffy fly while everyone else gets killed or captured? Because Joss needs her to be distant from everything. Enough already, we get it. And funnily enough, the end result is just that I feel distant from the story.

when has that been done before?

The story that immediately springs to mind is the Matrix sequels. And I hated those, so... :-)

For Buffy, maybe. But when the entire season has set it up as something very trivial for Willow, I find it difficult to be excited when Buffy does the same thing.

Sometimes having a restrictions actually helps.

Very much agreed.

But isn't that the definition of interesting? And I can see why you might call flying trivial for Willow - but it comes from her magic, which has been shown to be anything but trivial for her. It's connected to her greatest tragedies, both past and future.

But even if the flying were just trivial (which I don't see unless looking at it narrowly), that in itself makes an interesting statement. What's supposedly easy for one person, is incredibly difficult for another. Because we're used to be who we are, not equipped to be others - not immediately.

I think, though, that saying this power is very trivial for Willow is slicing away at the heart of her story. Because she has this power at great cost to herself - damaging her relationship with Kennedy and even killing her (Saga Vasuki), leading to her future death, leading to her loss of a potential happy future, loss of identity (she's a force, not a person who gets to have a family - not just be a mother, but to have a family and be a giver of life in a natural way). I don't see how you Willow's use of magic is presented as very trivial...

"they required a solid end date to plot to because otherwise they were stuck dragging things out and adding filler."

Pretty much the same as season 8 really.

"Sometimes having a restrictions actually helps."

Somebody please tell Whedon that. It would improve things no end. *G*

But isn't that the definition of interesting?

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but if I find it boring, then I can't really see it as interesting.

Willow's use of magic definitely has its downsides, yes. But not just downsides. And the flying, for instance, hasn't exactly been presented as a very controversial part of it - in fact, she's repeatedly been shown flying when she might as well have walked or driven, with no real negative consequences. It's been portrayed throughout as, well, trivial. So utterly so that most fans who like Season 8 have repeatedly denied that there's anything even vaguely remarkable about it.

and even killing her (Saga Vasuki), leading to her future death, leading to her loss of a potential happy future

Yeah, I've waited three years for that to be addressed. Bored now.

in fact, she's repeatedly been shown flying when she might as well have walked or driven, with no real negative consequences.

Except when Kumiko attacked her, surprising her because she took for granted that she was in control while flying and had her guard down (hubris). Or when she and Buffy almost plummet to their death because she'd been battling while flying.

It's kinda like saying she might as well have teleported and that's been shown without any negative consequences. Except that it makes Buffy sick. And it resulted in her being nabbed by the bad guys.

I see advantages used, but also negative results too. I don't think it's unilaterally unbalanced as the phrase "no real negative consequences" would make it. And Willow flying is one of the great ways shown that she's different - she's a force. And she's shown how she thinks that's bad. That it disconnects her.

If anything, the story has gone to great lengths to show how magic is both good and bad, flying included. Willow wants to turn her back on magic in one moment, to stop being a force, then in the next bitterly regrets this decision. It reminds me of warriors of old sick of killing, laying down their weapons to live a peaceful life (perhaps as a farmer), and then being forced to return to their life of bloody terror. Or if one stands true to these peaceful convictions, to be cut down as a martyr who refuses to protect oneself or even the ones you love. That there's no easy answer. There are consequences, both good and bad. And in the end, the decisions made force a compromise within us.

Except when Kumiko attacked her, surprising her because she took for granted that she was in control while flying and had her guard down (hubris)

Is that what that was? I thought she was just glad to be back in Scotland and generally mooning over the awesomeness that is Andrew, since we know Willow always liked him in the TV series. ;-)

Look, I appreciate you trying to convince me, but right now I just find myself bored with it. I don't care what happens if I don't care about the characters it's happening to. I think the key is what I said above: they've used the whole series to set up how everyone is distant from each other, giving ever more far-fetched reasons (or no reasons at all) to make it happen. Well, it worked (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoneHorriblyRight); I feel distant from it.

Honestly, I don't really expect to convince you. I'm just perhaps articulately how and why you and I diverge. It's more "you see it this way, I see it this way" - I don't think my POV is going to change your mind. :)

I also have been pondering the effect of the art. If people hate it and find it childish/amateurish, then it's like finding the actors to be dreadful at their craft. If you think SMG is the worst actress on the planet (some people think she's awful - I think they're crazy), then her crying scenes are just going to make one roll their eyes, if they can even be bothered to watch it.

If people hate it and find it childish/amateurish, then it's like finding the actors to be dreadful at their craft.

That's definitely a part of it too.

Maybe I haven't been watching/reading the right classic superhero stories.

Or maybe you haven't been watching the wrong superhero stories. What I'm reminded of is the parody "Superhero Movie", in which the hero, the Dragonfly, is very fast, super strong, and highly resistant to damage but feels like a failure as a superhero because he can't fly.

Or this:

And Twilight is now officially commanding US soldiers in battle. On PRC territory. With nobody questioning it. Huh.

This.

Along with everything else in your post.

*sporfles and applauds*

I am so, so thankful now that I came to hate and/or stopped caring about most of the BtVS characters way back in Season 6...'cause otherwise, I'd be so disgusted and disappointed with the absurdness that is "Season 8" that my head would explode. I hate, though, that folks like yourself who were looking forward to enjoying it have had your dreams torpedoed!

Unfortunately, I do still care about most of the characters of AtS -- and I hate the way its "Season 6" is turning out, too. To me it feels nothing like the real AtS -- the TV show -- and I was so devastated to learn that the comic book "Fred" wasn't really her and that IDW has vowed never to bring Fred back that I threw away all my Angel comics and haven't looked at a new one since.

*sigh*

...I think that Twilight is Steve Dallas.

Thanks!

I do still care about most of the characters of AtS -- and I hate the way its "Season 6" is turning out, too. To me it feels nothing like the real AtS

Agreed; I wrote my thoughts on the Angel comics here (http://beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com/100512.html). Hell, even Joss has realised it doesn't work as a season 6.

...I think that Twilight is Steve Dallas.

Well, that would kind of undo the fantastic ending (http://beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com/89995.html) he got in Opus, but of course undoing character arcs is par for the course here, so... why not. Does that mean Dawn will eventually turn into a basselope?

AWWWWWW! *sniffle* I'd seen the "Goodnight Moon" panel online, but not the ones leading up to it, so I didn't know that Steve got a nice ending! Okay, now I want Breathed to write and illustrate the Buffy- and Angel-verse comics. By God, HE would set things right! *shakes fists in the air*

You summed up my impressions of Season Eight. Although your previous reviews have given much more analysis to the material as opposed to my own "is Joss trying to brutally sodomize his own creation, on purpose?" reaction.

I've officially assigned S8 to the mental category I place any of the Aliens films past the second: "It might be official, but no way is it canon."

Although your previous reviews have given much more analysis to the material as opposed to my own "is Joss trying to brutally sodomize his own creation, on purpose?" reaction.

Well, I tried, but... Even if I try to analyse what I think Joss is going for (half of which seems to turn out to just be mistakes or Stuff We're Not Supposed To Pay Attention To) I just don't think it works well enough to make it worthwhile for me. Others, who do care about it, do a better job of it anyway. I'm just bored by it at this point.

"It might be official, but no way is it canon."

Personally, I think it's made a lot easier with the shift in medium (and continuity and characterisation and...) The TV series is the TV series, the comics are the comics, and never (so far) the twain shall meet. :-) Canon schmanon.

Oh, and...

Honestly, I don't really expect to convince you.

It's still appreciated, though. I hope you'll continue to write positive stuff about it; I really wanted to like this series, I wish I could, but the fact is there's too much in it that puts me off and not nearly enough that draws me in. Part of the reason I'm giving up is because there's no reason for me to continue to harsh other peoples' squee. :-)

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. And I'm not sure I want to go any further with this. If Buffy has these powers forever it means Willow, Faith and everybody else are mortal from now on. Which means they only exist to need Buffy to save them, and praise her when she does (which I think is almost worse than killing them, in some ways) and that Buffy is the only character that matters at all. (So maybe it wasn't a good idea spending season 6-8 making her completely unlikeable?)

Unless they really are setting up to have Twilight as some future version of Buffy, which would explain the power-up, but not the fact that's she built like the Rock. But then has logic stopped this story yet? Come to think of it, the way Buffy's been making decisions lately, and with Twilight seemingly unable to come up with a decent plan, maybe it is her after all? And that's how magic ends, Buffy and future Buffy fight a pointless battle until every other magical creture in the world gets bored and leave this reality.

I remember when the show went off I wanted more and missed it for years. Now, if they stopped the comic right here, I don't think I'd really care. And that's the sad thing.

If Buffy has these powers forever it means Willow, Faith and everybody else are mortal from now on. Which means they only exist to need Buffy to save them, and praise her when she does

Well, to be fair, that would be a return to s1 of the TV series, wouldn't it? Except of course for the hundreds of Slayers still active around the world who were smart enough to not go to Tibet and get rid of their powers. But mostly I'm sure it would be yet another excuse to show how Buffy is distanced from everyone and everything.

Yeah, I've seen some people speculate that Twilight is Buffy. Which doesn't really make sense, but like you said, Season 8 and logic. Though to me, the weirdest thing isn't that she would have turned into a guy, but... what is Twilight!Buffy's plan, exactly? It's certainly not to stop Buffy from becoming Twilight, since Twilight has been pushing Buffy this way all along (not that he's had to push very hard) so all he'd have to do to stop her is... well, nothing. Clearly, then, his goal is to create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself ∞. Well, it's one way of drawing out the comic franchise, I suppose.

And that's how magic ends, Buffy and future Buffy fight a pointless battle until every other magical creture in the world gets bored and leave this reality.

Heh.

I remember when the show went off I wanted more and missed it for years. Now, if they stopped the comic right here, I don't think I'd really care. And that's the sad thing.

Yup. Though I like what Whedon said on the "Lessons" commentary: I've been saying, anybody who didn't get that this is the last season after this scene was missing the point. A lot could have been avoided if he'd rewatched s6 and s7 before agreeing to this...

Hope you had a great day!

Thanks a lot!

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