#30

[beer_good_foamy]

Yep, I wrote something about #30. It's more grumpy than snarky, but it has a poll.

Nothing was delivered
And I tell this truth to you,
Not out of spite or anger
But simply because it's true.
- Bob Dylan, "Nothing Was Delivered"

"My god, it sucks to be weak."
- Buffy Summers, Season 8 #30

#30, then. The end of the arc that, as Allie once again tells us in the letter column here, was supposed to leave us shocked, pissed off and scrambling for pitchforks (actual quote). The arc that was advertised with phrases that all said "people are going to die" (again, actual quote). The one that was so chock-full of reveals and developments that it had to be stretched to 5 issues and followed by no less than two standalones.

And it ends predictably, considering the plan they came up with: the former slayer army loses and everyone remains powerless. Geez, Buffyverse gods not playing by human rules, what were the odds? Despite the advance hype, however, we get no character deaths (apart from a bunch of redshirts nobody cares about), no big reveals, no new clues about who Twilight is (nor any more reasons to care), no major thematic or character developments that hadn't already been covered (well, maybe one, see below), and then at the end an advance hint of whatever will be the plot of the next arc. Like #29 before it, it's mostly stuff blowing up, and that bores me even in movies where it doesn't look like something out of My Little Pony like Jeanty's art tends to do. Yeah, I see now how they absolutely had to stretch this story out to five issues. Or six. Or seven, or however many it'll end up being.

I'm pretty sure I recall someone hinting a few months ago that Twilight would be revealed in this issue, but of course the reveal has since been postponed yet again, so it's no big surprise that almost 3 years into the story we still know jack squat about him except that we know jack squat about him. Which apparently is supposed to make him interesting. That's not mystery, it's hide-and-go-seek. Given that his entire point is to be someone in disguise, and that none of the characters seem to want to know who he is, I stand by my prediction from last month: Twilight won't be revealed. At all. Ever.

Riley's confirmed as a triple agent (at least). Not a very useful one, since he hasn't actually done anything to help Buffy yet; I suppose all the redshirts he watched get killed without doing anything (or stop Twilight when he was standing right beside him) were considered acceptable losses, but hey, big picture. I'm sure we'll get a good explanation for what he's been up to and what his role is in Season 8 any decade now, his arc so far has been... non-existant, really.

But there is one very welcome thing about the issue: Buffy realises that simply saying she's the good guy makes absolutely no difference, and starts actually acting like it. For the first time in a bunch of issues, she seems to actually draw a reasonable conclusion, and her speech about "protecting everything that bleeds" is great. It's the kind of (rather obvious) reply to the "you're at war with the human race" challenge I've been waiting for for 30 issues now. Yay Buffy! A pity it's immediately followed by another 90-degree turn into the absurd, as...



Now, I'm guessing that Buffy being able to fly is the big thing that was supposed to piss us off. Of course,for it to piss anyone off it would have to have some significance, and so far I have no idea what it's supposed to do (and given the art, I wasn't even sure what it was supposed to be). I've seen some speculation that this is the buddhist thing where by giving up power, you get power. Which is nice for Buffy who gave up her power and is now Superman, and less so for all the others who gave up their power and are now either prisoners, killers, dead, or some combination thereof. I suppose that's why nobody who's not just cannon fodder bought it in this issue; having Buffy become a superbeing because Faith or Willow died might have been a hard sell.

No, it doesn't look like Season 8 is in a hurry to return to the relative realism of the TV show anytime soon. Maybe it'll make sense, maybe it won't, maybe Buffy will get herself a really spiffy cape and matching tights, but at least it continues Season 8's consistent trend of random transformations. I think a poll is in order.

[Poll #1482133]

So, this is where I would sum up the entire arc, but of course it's not over yet even though it's already one issue into overtime, so I have no idea what to write here. One idiot plot, two issues of some really good character introspection, and three issues of Bruckheimeresque fight scenes. Yeah, I know, this is all setup for something. That's what we said after "Predators and Prey" too, wasn't it? Come to think of it, that's what the Lost fans are still telling me years after I gave up on that series. And Season 8 hasn't even gotten to the magical polar bears yet.

General observations:
- They would have saved themselves a lot of trouble (and a lot of nameless dead Slayers, if anyone's expected to care) by surrendering right away when it became obvious that the fight was unwinnable (about two issues ago). Just sayin'.
- And Twilight is now officially commanding US soldiers in battle. On PRC territory. With nobody questioning it. Huh.
- The goddesses were said to want to kill everyone and then move on to the next valley. Except then they move on without killing everyone. Oh well.
- Allie confirms that the Slayers in Tibet aren't "ALL the Slayers (…) there are still cells in other countries"; so much for the argument that Buffy and her gang had no choice but to go with Operation Sitting Duck or die. In short, it retains its title as Dumbest Tactic Ever.
- Has the "Chosen" spell been permanently undone now? Seems like. Should make some people happy, I guess. I was pretty sure Joss wouldn't do that, and I'm still not sure he will.
- Also, there's the...

...You know what? I think I'm done. I don't care who Twilight is, I have no interest in spending another year on this only to see Buffy shoehorned into Fray, and as for Buffy's newfound Powers Of Sudden Plot Device, I gave up Superman when I was 14. I keep hoping the comic will somehow reconnect with the show, and it keeps moving further away (deliberately, apparently). I keep hoping something will click and everything will make sense, and it keeps getting more random. I keep hoping the story will match the admittedly interesting themes being explored, and it keeps breaking its own back to fit the metaphor.

I love Buffy because, as fantastical and as silly as it got, it was always grounded in some semblance of reality, some sort of earth logic in a fantasy setting; if you do A, you can reasonably expect B to follow (except then C happens instead because A isn't as simple as you think, but there's still cause and effect). It was about the challenges of everyday life. It's not that Buffy now has comic-book superhero powers, it's that... to paraphrase a good TV writer, if shit just happens, if nothing the characters do matters, then nothing matters. I don't feel the logic of it, I have no way to tell what anything is supposed to mean, understand why anyone does what they do. Does that make it a bad story? Maybe, maybe not, I'm sure it's a lot of fun for people who enjoy that sort of story, and good luck to you. But despite Allie hoping that it would piss us off, all it does is bore me; what pisses me off is that after 30+ issues, all it manages to do is bore me. And so...

Grr. Argh.

The fewer words you have to waste on this,
The sooner you can go.
- Bob Dylan, "Nothing Was Delivered"

Comments

[shapinglight]

I think I ruined your poll because I ticked every box. At this juncture, they all seem about as likely.

Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one this issue affected like this. I'd put it down to my stormtrooper outfit chafing after a week back at the Deathstar. But if you feel the same way.....

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I think I ruined your poll because I ticked every box. At this juncture, they all seem about as likely.

Actually, that was sort of the point, so yay!

I'd put it down to my stormtrooper outfit chafing after a week back at the Deathstar. But if you feel the same way.....

To be fair, my week has sucked too. Maybe we both need a better nature. :-) The worst part is that there are probably still some interesting stuff to find here, it's just that... I honestly can't do anything but go "whatever Joss wants to happen will happen, Inshallah" and I don't feel that I, as a reader, am a part of it in any way.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Pretty much the best thing about the comics these days are the reviews. This is great and all I really want to do is quote you back to you. A special shout out to "Buffy's newfound Powers Of Sudden Plot Device" which much more eloquently captures what I've been trying to get at by calling it random. The whole arc reeks of plot device and I just can't care about Buffy's predicament if I don't buy it in the first place. Thanks also for calling out the gross misleads about what was to happen in this arc. I open an issue that is supposed to have character deaths and big reveals, and get nothing of the sort unless you count flying Buffy -- but we already covered that.

I still hold out room for this to come together in an interesting way -- but am increasingly convinced that this is big picture Joss, and big picture Joss is pretty much a hack.

BTW, I finally did rewatch Belonging and still have a hard time seeing the good there. It's got some good acting and is entertaining enough and all of that. I love Topher big. But storms coming, and how terrible it is to kidnap and brainwash don't do a lot for me. My big question to you: why would Sierra return to being Sierra at the end of the episode?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

The whole arc reeks of plot device and I just can't care about Buffy's predicament if I don't buy it in the first place.

Exactly. Especially now that we have Word Of God (or OK, St Peter or whatever Allie is to Joss) that there are still plenty of Slayers all around the world who didn't need to do this.

As for "Belonging", I'm still trying to find my Dollhouse meta space, if you know what I mean. Stuff I really liked about it, from a "big picture" POV, was that it keeps building on something that both "Epitaph One" and 2.02 (the title escapes me) set up: the dolls as created monsters, as Danas to Echo's Buffy. Sierra takes on the role of the wrongdoer for all the right reasons. Or something. Plus, I loved that it finally adressed the rather horrible fact that Priya was in the dollhouse very much against her will, I'd been waiting for that.

why would Sierra return to being Sierra at the end of the episode?

Beats going to prison. Beats having to face your own darkness. Beats remembering that you stabbed a person to death. I'm still not sure of what they're going for with the idea that the people who choose to enter the DH do so to escape something about themselves, some failing of their own; if they keep playing their cards right, I'm imagining it as the exact antithesis of the "soul" concept on BtVS - that is, deliberately becoming someone else, shutting down your inner voice in order to be able to live in an unfair world.

Or something. Like I said, still working on it. :-)

[next_to_normal]

Aww, does this mean no more reviews from you? I suppose I can't really blame you, since I stopped shelling out money way back at ToYL, but I do enjoy your reviews. I like reading the reviews in general because I can keep up with what's going on without actually having to read the comics, but yours in particular always bring the appropriate amount of snark. I can't really approach the comics - even in summary form - without the requisite level of snark.

I'd sort of forgotten all the big promises about this arc, but you're right - in no way does this live up to the hype (not that I expect it to anymore). I've got a pitchfork with Allie's name on it, for sure, but it's got nothing to do with the "shocking revelations" in this issue.

I just want to quote your entire last paragraph back at you, but I'll settle for giggling at "Buffy's newfound Powers Of Sudden Plot Device" (TM) and the My Little Pony thing.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Aww, does this mean no more reviews from you?

Probably. I might still read the upcoming issues if they fall in my lap, and if something really turns around I might go back on this, but for now I really can't come up with anything to say apart from pointing out the flaws. And that's a crap reason to review something you started out of love, IMO. But thanks. :-)

[deird1]

and as for Buffy's newfound Powers Of Sudden Plot Device, I gave up Superman when I was 14.

...I think Superman actually had more logical consistency. :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Maybe Twilight is Lex Luthor? Or Brainiac - apparently James Marsters played him on Smallville, so Spike would sort of be in it after all...

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Well couldn't resist and went for the world filled with shrimps building. :D

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

With all the time travel paradoxes in Season 8, Buffy creating the world with nothing but shrimp would be quite the twist. :-)

[elisi]

Amen.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

:-)

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

and that's all anyone can say about it. Whatever BtvS has been to me, it has never been boring until now. Such a shame.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Personally, I think it's about time to re-watch the series.

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

I agree, though I'll miss your snarky reviews. It stopped being Buffy when it became less about character development and more about "that would be cool!"

Incidentally, in filling out the poll, I picked the option of spinning around the globe and giving everyone their money back. Does that mean all the people Buffy stole from, or all the people that shelled out good money for this piece of pulp?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks. And I was thinking of the money spent on the comic books, myself. :-)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I loved your review, laughed through a good portion of it. Thank you.
And clicked most of the boxes on the poll.

Have to admit, I agree with many of the commentators that the reviews are far more interesting than the comics. Making me wonder if Whedon's stories work better on a metaphorical level than a literal one? His earlier stories worked on both levels, his later ones seem to me to be getting more and more metaphorical and big-picture thematic/messagey. Although that could just be me? (shrugs). At any rate - I know what he is doing here, just on the fence as to whether I care, because he appears to be losing the characters in the process of satisfying some weird urge to do both his Wonderwoman script and tell us how Fray happened at the same time.

Regarding Dollhouse? I read your back and forth with maggie and agree, I think that may be where Whedon is heading with it - as a sort of antithesis to the whole soul thing on Buffy. Haven't seen Epitaph One, but I rather liked Belonging, and I agree with you on why Sierra went back to the Dollhouse. I don't think she had a choice - she didn't want to remember what happened to her, the asylum, the rape of her mind, or why and how she killed Nolan - she wanted that erased. She couldn't live with it or what it turned her into. And, she went back to DH because she loved Victor and he was in DH. I think it was in part out of love - she wanted to go back to being innocent and in love with Victor, to be rid of the pain. Anesthestized.

Have to say I'm finding Dollhouse more interesting. It may turn up as a comic if it doesn't continue as a series, which I have mixed feelings about. Although, Whedon did a rather good job with X-men as a comic, so it may not be the medium that is the problem here so much as his co-collaborators - Allie and Metzler. He was only working with Cassidy and the marvel editors on X-men, who more or less left him alone.

Love the Bloom County comic - that is exactly what I thought about Buffy dying. What, again? Oh, okay, she can fly now. (shrug). Where's the big reveal that was supposed to piss us all off? (thumbs quickly through comic) can't find it anywhere...is it Riley as triple agent? Sort of knew that already and why does it matter, he hasn't really aided anyone. Not quite sure what the point was.
Where are all these big reveals??? Oh, wait, it is Buffy flying. Okay why would that piss anyone off? Or be a big reveal?

I agree - the war scenes would have bored me even if they weren't done in a bubble-gum art/My Little Poney style. Love that description of Jeanty's art. I keep wishing Joan Chen was doing the art, but then it would take forever...or be in magna style - she's faster with her magna.

Oh well, I'll probably continue reading a bit further...because for reasons that escape me, I'm still curious as to who Twilight is. Although I agree with you, he will either never be revealed or is no one that we remember or know, or some meaningless peripherial character or big bad that we don't care that much about. To date, most of the supporting character appearances have been disappointing or characters that I don't care that much about seeing again any time soon.

But. while I'm disappointed in the comics, I'm also ambivalent and sort of halfway enjoying them as absurd and somewhat surreal fanfic. They feel like fanfic to me, just as Fray felt like fanfic, and the Brian Lynch comics feel like fanfic. They do not feel like a continuation of the series in any way and never have. I guess because I don't see Whedon as being the sole creator of the series. The only way it could be a continuation is if Whedon got everyone involved in the series in a room and hatched out the plot, which I think is impossible. Whedon seems to discount the input that his actors provided - although I'm beginning to think he gets that and to a degree, Dollhouse may be an exploration of how he has treated actors in his own head and how Hollywood often treats them.

Sorry for the long response. I write gobs when I'm entertained.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

Making me wonder if Whedon's stories work better on a metaphorical level than a literal one? His earlier stories worked on both levels, his later ones seem to me to be getting more and more metaphorical and big-picture thematic/messagey.

I'm not sure it's that simple. Whedon always wanted his stories to mean something - Buffy s1 and early s2 are painfully preachy at times. On the other hand, I think both Firefly (though not so much Serenity) and Dollhouse often do a good job of sneaking the ideas in under cover of the story. But Season 8 definitely seems to go out of its way to get to a certain point, regardless of how much they need to mess with characterisation or continuity to get there.

It may turn up as a comic if it doesn't continue as a series, which I have mixed feelings about.

And like the Firefly comics, I'll probably steer clear of it. I just don't think Whedon has a good grasp of the medium. He and his co-writers seem to still be writing Season 8 as if it were a TV series, where they had decent-to-great actors to give their dialogue context (rather than Jeanty, who IMO is the equivalent of hiring nothing but bad amateur actors) and every episode plays out in 40 minutes rather than 3 months.

Love the Bloom County comic

Yay! I was hoping someone would comment on that. Bloom County ftw. (Even if that, too, occasionally sacrificed plot to soapboxing, but at least you only had to wait 24 hours for the next one...)

Oh, wait, it is Buffy flying. Okay why would that piss anyone off? Or be a big reveal?

According to Allie, I thought you'd say, "Well, great, it's a comic now, so suddenly she has to be flying? That's crap, Scott Allie, I'm gonna kill you for wrecking Buffy." It seems like any departure from the show is met with some venom, and this seemed to me the biggest departure so far. Which he's not wrong about, except that most people who don't think it's a fantastic plot development seem to be more bored and alienated by it than pissed off, despite him essentially admitting that he's trolling.

he will either never be revealed or is no one that we remember or know, or some meaningless peripherial character or big bad that we don't care that much about

As far as I can tell, there are a couple of different possibilities:

1) Twilight is a minor/unused character (Caleb, Adam, Tucker Wells, etc) which... yawn. OK, just kill him.
2) Twilight is a major character (Buffy, Xander, Giles, etc) from a different timeline or something (since pretty much every major BtVS character has been revealed to not be Twilight) which... Well, if they hadn't all acted like idiots, it wouldn't have happened. Plus, the dance they would need to do to explain why that character would do it would have to be pretty damn good, and so far Season 8's track record in that department isn't too good.
3) Twilight is one of the new Season 8 characters. Yawn. Just kill him.
4) Twilight is a completely new character and/or not even a character at all, just a figurehead for someone else. At which point you're still stuck with 1) or 2) and having to explain why on earth somebody would do that, and... again, yawn.

I used to think the interesting thing about Twilight would be what he causes the other characters to do. Except all they seem to do is act like idiots, and unless he's been doing something to the water supply, I'm not sure he can be blamed. :-)

They feel like fanfic to me, just as Fray felt like fanfic, and the Brian Lynch comics feel like fanfic.

To be honest, Lynch feels much more like fanfic to me. The worst part about Season 8 is that it does feel like a Whedon series - it's got depth and ideas that Lynch isn't even aware of, it just does it badly. As I think I've said before, I've seen fanfic that's better and I've seen fanfic that's worse, but I've never seen fanfic that's this much better and this much worse at the same time.

to a degree, Dollhouse may be an exploration of how he has treated actors in his own head and how Hollywood often treats them.

Good point.

Sorry for the long response.

Likewise! :-D

[i-timan-i.livejournal.com]

It’s sad to see you finish off these reviews they’ve been on of the highlights of reading the comics. In saying that I can’t blame you for not wanting to continue, lets face it, the whole series to date has been one gigantic game of ‘come over here and say that!’ (Occasionally done naked for no apparent reason) with neither style nor substance.

I miss the days of old where Buffy had plans that didn’t involve the Zapp Brannigan ‘stopping the killbots’ methodology. And where the villains would actually be present and not drop by occasionally and say “Oh, btw, I’m still evil if anybody’s interested”. I haven’t yet read this issue but, with this whole arc, I’m fuzzy on what Buffy’s plan was with this arc (whether there was one). As far as I can tell it’s the equivalent of a US General approaching his troops and saying:

‘Alright men listen up today we set forth out into the battle field and approach the enemy! When you do make contact with the enemy the first thing you will do is to strip naked and hand over your weapons! Then you will take this small pot of red paint and apply it to your chest and head in the shape of a target with no more then three consecutive rings! If the enemy is unfamiliar with your weapons you will proceed to train them in their use at which point you well then proceed to a distance of ten feet and advance utilizing the space invaders video game maneuver! Now go out there and die with dignity!’

It’s a shame that they didn’t put in the time otherwise the long term fans like us wouldn’t feel so alienated from the comic.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

And where the villains would actually be present and not drop by occasionally and say “Oh, btw, I’m still evil if anybody’s interested”.

Twilight might be the first Whedonverse villain ever who wouldn't have gotten anything achieved if everyone had just done what comes naturally and ignored him. Remember that Treehouse of Horror episode where the solution was to just not look at the monsters? But at least he actually has several lines of dialogue - plural! - in this issue. And reveals himself to be a complete wuss as soon as Warren and Amy start their hilarious bickering yet again and shove him out of the way. Apparently, not even evil masterminds can get too much of that.

As far as I can tell it’s the equivalent of a US General approaching his troops and saying... advance utilizing the space invaders video game maneuver! Now go out there and die with dignity!

Hee! Well, to be fair, that's pretty much word-for-word the orders that Twilight gives the US General in this issue when they come up against the goddesses. Funny how generals have no choice but to obey mysterious masked men when they order them to have their men kamikaze. That's a "Sir, according to the blah-de-blah-de-blah, I'm now revealing you of your already highly unconstitutional command" moment if I ever saw one.

[pamsblau.livejournal.com]

Never read any of your reviews, cause i am a new fan and all, but i like this one. Still haven't read the comic, though. Looking forward to doing so. I think you're right about everything. Buffy season 8 hasn't been The Best at all, but i still follow it, because it's Buffy. It hurts me to see no actual development, but hope is all i have.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

i still follow it, because it's Buffy

No it's not. :-) (Deliberate cognitive dissonance ftw! Seriously, it makes everything easier.)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

A truly excellent summing up about how I've felt about this series so far. A combination of boredom and disappointment, sprinkled with amazement.

After some issues I've sat back, and all I've felt is, damn, that was a waste of good paper. :0

"as Allie once again tells us in the letter column here, was supposed to leave us shocked, pissed off and scrambling for pitchforks (actual quote)."

What is that mans problem? Do all comic editors these days act like utter annoy pratts, or is he in a league of his own?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for linking to it!

What is that mans problem?

To be honest, I think most of the time he's just trying to be one of the guys. But his repeated "please please please be pissed off by this" about the Super!Buffy development is starting to edge into trolling territory...

[empresspatti.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to drop in and thank you for slogging it out and reading the comics and reviewing for people like me that will never read the comics, but still want to know.

But I really get your point - there is nothing to know, anymore. Any story line I'd care about is never going to happen. Le sigh.

So thanks - for keeping that candle in your window for so long. Joss doesn't deserve you.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you!

[rahirah]

Damn, if all the reviewers are giving up, I may actually have to go back to reading the damn things myself, and I really don't want to do that...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I'm sure stormwreath will continue to post his, and they're usually very much worth reading and discussing. Even if he and I disagree on quite a few things.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Wow! That's just sad. I can't say I am too surprised though. Still, it's nice to know I can save my money for something else.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

To be fair, some people (for instance, angearia) seem to think it's a fantastic plot development (http://angearia.livejournal.com/76417.html#cutid1). I have to say I don't see it, but there are definitely some alternate views on the story. Myself, I just can't be bothered anymore.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

All I can say is that at least Lost has a solid end date and a few actual WTF moments... that's more than the comics can actually claim.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I honestly couldn't say since I gave up on Lost when I started to feel like they were just going to pile on the non sequiturs for a few seasons before even attempting some sort of resolution. I have nothing against mysteries as such, though it's not really what I look for in a story, but if there's no point to the mysteries, if they don't contribute to anything but to just keep adding new question marks and veer off in new directions, then it starts looking like poor storytelling to me. If the only question is "What's going to happen next?" there's no reason for me to care what happens next.

[sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com]

And Twilight is now officially commanding US soldiers in battle. On PRC territory. With nobody questioning it. Huh.

This.

Along with everything else in your post.

*sporfles and applauds*

I am so, so thankful now that I came to hate and/or stopped caring about most of the BtVS characters way back in Season 6...'cause otherwise, I'd be so disgusted and disappointed with the absurdness that is "Season 8" that my head would explode. I hate, though, that folks like yourself who were looking forward to enjoying it have had your dreams torpedoed!

Unfortunately, I do still care about most of the characters of AtS -- and I hate the way its "Season 6" is turning out, too. To me it feels nothing like the real AtS -- the TV show -- and I was so devastated to learn that the comic book "Fred" wasn't really her and that IDW has vowed never to bring Fred back that I threw away all my Angel comics and haven't looked at a new one since.

*sigh*

...I think that Twilight is Steve Dallas.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I do still care about most of the characters of AtS -- and I hate the way its "Season 6" is turning out, too. To me it feels nothing like the real AtS

Agreed; I wrote my thoughts on the Angel comics here (http://beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com/100512.html). Hell, even Joss has realised it doesn't work as a season 6.

...I think that Twilight is Steve Dallas.

Well, that would kind of undo the fantastic ending (http://beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com/89995.html) he got in Opus, but of course undoing character arcs is par for the course here, so... why not. Does that mean Dawn will eventually turn into a basselope?

[sam-arkand.livejournal.com]

You summed up my impressions of Season Eight. Although your previous reviews have given much more analysis to the material as opposed to my own "is Joss trying to brutally sodomize his own creation, on purpose?" reaction.

I've officially assigned S8 to the mental category I place any of the Aliens films past the second: "It might be official, but no way is it canon."

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Although your previous reviews have given much more analysis to the material as opposed to my own "is Joss trying to brutally sodomize his own creation, on purpose?" reaction.

Well, I tried, but... Even if I try to analyse what I think Joss is going for (half of which seems to turn out to just be mistakes or Stuff We're Not Supposed To Pay Attention To) I just don't think it works well enough to make it worthwhile for me. Others, who do care about it, do a better job of it anyway. I'm just bored by it at this point.

"It might be official, but no way is it canon."

Personally, I think it's made a lot easier with the shift in medium (and continuity and characterisation and...) The TV series is the TV series, the comics are the comics, and never (so far) the twain shall meet. :-) Canon schmanon.

[axelosbourne.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. And I'm not sure I want to go any further with this. If Buffy has these powers forever it means Willow, Faith and everybody else are mortal from now on. Which means they only exist to need Buffy to save them, and praise her when she does (which I think is almost worse than killing them, in some ways) and that Buffy is the only character that matters at all. (So maybe it wasn't a good idea spending season 6-8 making her completely unlikeable?)

Unless they really are setting up to have Twilight as some future version of Buffy, which would explain the power-up, but not the fact that's she built like the Rock. But then has logic stopped this story yet? Come to think of it, the way Buffy's been making decisions lately, and with Twilight seemingly unable to come up with a decent plan, maybe it is her after all? And that's how magic ends, Buffy and future Buffy fight a pointless battle until every other magical creture in the world gets bored and leave this reality.

I remember when the show went off I wanted more and missed it for years. Now, if they stopped the comic right here, I don't think I'd really care. And that's the sad thing.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

If Buffy has these powers forever it means Willow, Faith and everybody else are mortal from now on. Which means they only exist to need Buffy to save them, and praise her when she does

Well, to be fair, that would be a return to s1 of the TV series, wouldn't it? Except of course for the hundreds of Slayers still active around the world who were smart enough to not go to Tibet and get rid of their powers. But mostly I'm sure it would be yet another excuse to show how Buffy is distanced from everyone and everything.

Yeah, I've seen some people speculate that Twilight is Buffy. Which doesn't really make sense, but like you said, Season 8 and logic. Though to me, the weirdest thing isn't that she would have turned into a guy, but... what is Twilight!Buffy's plan, exactly? It's certainly not to stop Buffy from becoming Twilight, since Twilight has been pushing Buffy this way all along (not that he's had to push very hard) so all he'd have to do to stop her is... well, nothing. Clearly, then, his goal is to create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself in order to go back in time and create himself ∞. Well, it's one way of drawing out the comic franchise, I suppose.

And that's how magic ends, Buffy and future Buffy fight a pointless battle until every other magical creture in the world gets bored and leave this reality.

Heh.

I remember when the show went off I wanted more and missed it for years. Now, if they stopped the comic right here, I don't think I'd really care. And that's the sad thing.

Yup. Though I like what Whedon said on the "Lessons" commentary: I've been saying, anybody who didn't get that this is the last season after this scene was missing the point. A lot could have been avoided if he'd rewatched s6 and s7 before agreeing to this...

Happy Birthday!

[buffy-fan2007.livejournal.com]

Hope you had a great day!

Re: Happy Birthday!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks a lot!