I'd say there's something to it, except that I'm not sure the earth mother archetype is necessarily completely self-sacrificing to the point of allowing anything. Hell, going by Buffy alone, even Joyce got to hit Spike over the head and call Buffy on her antics once or twice (then again, I've seen fans hate on her and call her "the least supportive mother ever" for not being a doormat, so hey.) Also, I'm not sure any of the Buffy characters can be made to fit perfectly in any one archetype.
I do agree there is something to it and I didn't mean otherwise -- just that saying that doesn't quite get at some of the biggest moments for the character in the show. I do think Tara's Earth-Motheriness is definitely the baseline archetype (I mean, the name), and there are Willows-Grow-In-The-Earth associations (and plus, root jokes).
I have had an urge to write Joyce-defense post for a while. I think that she is one of the characters who is hurt most badly by the Buffy POV -- it's not Buffy the character's fault, because they really ARE evil, but the fact that Joyce gets kind of vilified for having resentments toward her daughter when she watches Buffy kill her one boyfriend (Ted) and her one friend (Pat) in front of her within a few months of each other makes me sad. (And in both cases, I think that it is Buffy-POV that contributes to the story being the way it is: the worst thing Joyce can do is have anyone in her life who undermines Buffy's primacy.) And while it's subtle, Joyce DOES have an arc, of sorts, that has her arrive at the Giles-place of accepting her daughter's status as an adult earlier than he does, basically when she lets Buffy pack her bags for her in "Graduation Day" (and how wonderful is it that Buffy tries the same thing with Dawn and Dawn, The Next Generation, won't stand for it <3), and then dealing with being the woman in the wall waiting in season four, accepting irrelevance by learning to play Mahjong and being ready in season five to have Buffy take care of her and her legacy. "Graduation Day" is probably about the Giles-in-"Tabula Rasa" point of her arc, I think, though they differ in a lot of major ways (obviously). It is interesting that Joyce's function as Buffy's mother, whom Buffy needs, more or less ends early in the series -- it's only in her absence that Buffy recognizes how much she needs her just to exist.
Thanks! And I agree, there's definitely some darkness in there. I tried to put in hints (under the fresh coat of paint, so to speak) that these were two women, Willow especially, who were very aware that they both have the capacity for true darkness and/or madness within them, which is no less important if they're both going to be working at W&H. (I put Knox in there just to hint that they'll still have to face the Illyria plotline.) And Willow essentially deciding that fuck it, she can't go through life limiting herself to situations where she'll never risk anything. This isn't overcoming darkness, it's deciding to play the odds.
Yes, I definitely got that. The imagery actually works really well, because after all what does Fred do if not try to paint over the crazy, but it's still there (like Book's hair), waiting. And that's not a bad thing; if you don't touch a little bit of the crazy or the strawberries, you're not alive. And it captures the essential thing about Willow's s7 story, which is that when you KNOW that you are capable of something horrible if your emotional balance is remotely messed up, you do everything you can not to jilt the equilibrium, even if it's an unpleasant one. I also really like the subtlety with which you dispense with Kennedy as a romantic threat to Willow/Fred ("all slayered out").
And I will check out your stuff as well - sorry I haven't already. I didn't want to do it as long as you're on your sabbatical,though. :)
Thanks :) Re: sabbatical, seeing your comment to norwie just made it seem like a good opportunity for a reminder ;). But you could still wait until I'm officially back, or any time really. I'm obviously not as committed to my hiatus as I should be. :)
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Date: 2012-10-21 02:32 am (UTC)I do agree there is something to it and I didn't mean otherwise -- just that saying that doesn't quite get at some of the biggest moments for the character in the show. I do think Tara's Earth-Motheriness is definitely the baseline archetype (I mean, the name), and there are Willows-Grow-In-The-Earth associations (and plus, root jokes).
I have had an urge to write Joyce-defense post for a while. I think that she is one of the characters who is hurt most badly by the Buffy POV -- it's not Buffy the character's fault, because they really ARE evil, but the fact that Joyce gets kind of vilified for having resentments toward her daughter when she watches Buffy kill her one boyfriend (Ted) and her one friend (Pat) in front of her within a few months of each other makes me sad. (And in both cases, I think that it is Buffy-POV that contributes to the story being the way it is: the worst thing Joyce can do is have anyone in her life who undermines Buffy's primacy.) And while it's subtle, Joyce DOES have an arc, of sorts, that has her arrive at the Giles-place of accepting her daughter's status as an adult earlier than he does, basically when she lets Buffy pack her bags for her in "Graduation Day" (and how wonderful is it that Buffy tries the same thing with Dawn and Dawn, The Next Generation, won't stand for it <3), and then dealing with being the woman in the wall waiting in season four, accepting irrelevance by learning to play Mahjong and being ready in season five to have Buffy take care of her and her legacy. "Graduation Day" is probably about the Giles-in-"Tabula Rasa" point of her arc, I think, though they differ in a lot of major ways (obviously). It is interesting that Joyce's function as Buffy's mother, whom Buffy needs, more or less ends early in the series -- it's only in her absence that Buffy recognizes how much she needs her just to exist.
Thanks! And I agree, there's definitely some darkness in there. I tried to put in hints (under the fresh coat of paint, so to speak) that these were two women, Willow especially, who were very aware that they both have the capacity for true darkness and/or madness within them, which is no less important if they're both going to be working at W&H. (I put Knox in there just to hint that they'll still have to face the Illyria plotline.) And Willow essentially deciding that fuck it, she can't go through life limiting herself to situations where she'll never risk anything. This isn't overcoming darkness, it's deciding to play the odds.
Yes, I definitely got that. The imagery actually works really well, because after all what does Fred do if not try to paint over the crazy, but it's still there (like Book's hair), waiting. And that's not a bad thing; if you don't touch a little bit of the crazy or the strawberries, you're not alive. And it captures the essential thing about Willow's s7 story, which is that when you KNOW that you are capable of something horrible if your emotional balance is remotely messed up, you do everything you can not to jilt the equilibrium, even if it's an unpleasant one. I also really like the subtlety with which you dispense with Kennedy as a romantic threat to Willow/Fred ("all slayered out").
And I will check out your stuff as well - sorry I haven't already. I didn't want to do it as long as you're on your sabbatical,though. :)
Thanks :) Re: sabbatical, seeing your comment to norwie just made it seem like a good opportunity for a reminder ;). But you could still wait until I'm officially back, or any time really. I'm obviously not as committed to my hiatus as I should be. :)