Nominations! Oh, and the comics thing.

[beer_good_foamy]

"Mission Accomplished" has gotten a bunch of nominations! I'm really happy and grateful for that. So from the bottom of my heart - as dark and evil as it may be - thank you to the people who nominated me.





Also, some quick'n'dirty thoughts on that Angel "After the Fall" comic thingy.

- Interesting setup, with Angel still working for W&H in hell. I have no idea where that could be going, or why he went along with it, and apparently he doesn't know either ("The punishment would be worse. Not sure how")... I'll just stick with "interesting" for now, see where it goes. And we get right down to business with Angel turning it around in the last few pages, which is good even though we barely get to know where he is before he starts trying to get out of it. So how does all of this fit in with the shanshu thingamabob? I'll reserve all judgment until the end of the arc.

- I like Angel here. Seems like a pretty good continuation of his s5 self. And I like that he knows that he's the one who started all this and he's the one in the thick of it – obviously, Angel has experience in guilt-tripping. And the first few pages are basically the teaser from "City Of" plus dragon. Though wait a minute... W&H killed Cordy? Since when? Or was it Fred that W&H killed in this verse? The only girlfriend of Angel's that W&H killed, AFAIR, is Darla – but surely Angel's not THAT slow on the uptake?

- Good dialogue throughout, especially for Angel and Wesley. Also, unlike certain other comics I could mention, we do get a decent amount of backstory on how they got from the TV show to here. Kudos.

- I know everyone is squeeing about this, but I'm less than thrilled about Wesley being back; I thought he got a good arc, a good death, and I sort of wish they'd let him stay dead – wasn't it enough that his life sucked, you gotta screw up his afterlife too? But hey, at least they didn't bring him back to life and claim that some witch had 4 seconds to save him; apparently he's under the same sort of deal as Holland and Lilah were, which makes sense, except he's incorporeal, which... doesn't, so much. (And raises the question why the hell a ghost needs glasses.) Also, he's now evil, or at least the mouthpiece of evil, and seems to have had a bit of a character reset in more than just dress sense. Huh. But of course, his name is also misspelt, so possibly it's not supposed to be Wesley at all.

- Gunn is alive! Yay! And he's a giant perv! Huh? Oh, wait, he's a vampire. OK, I'd heard that they had planned for that, and so no huge surprise, but... makes sense, I suppose he must have been turned in the battle. Great reveal, btw.

- Nice to see Gwen back. Kinda indifferent about Nina, especially since judging from her brief scene, she seems to have been given a complete personality transplant. Apocalypse can do that to you, I guess. Connor? That's supposed to be Connor?

- No sign of Spike (except in the preview for #2). No sign of Illyria. No sign of Lorne. No sign of Anne. No sign of... well, you get the picture.

- Fun villain. Kr'Ph, I mean. I want a fish like that.

- Art: apparently, people are very excited about this Urru guy. *shrugs* I dunno. The style takes some getting used to; very dark, a bit confusing in the action scenes, and while he captures the way people look, they don't look very... alive. (Of course most of them are dead in some way, but you know what I mean.) Every panel looks like a posed portrait to me. Might be more my unused-to-comics-ness, though.

- So since when is the Buffyverse all about showing large-breasted women in tight (or non-existant) outfits, hmmm? Sure, I can buy that Kr'Ph would want naked human women around, and it IS Los Angeles, but that powershot with Nina, Gwen and Connor... come ON. According to Brian Lynch, "the artist is from somewhere called 'Italy' and claims all women look like that." Oh well.

- So if this is somehow roughly the same timeframe as "Season 8", and both claim to be canon... how come nobody in the Slayer camp (or, for that matter, Twilight) seems to have noticed that most of LA and neighbouring towns have disappeared into Hell? You'd think that would be the sort of thing they would be interested in...? What do you say, comics fans, which canon is canonier right now?

- On a whole... *shrugs* As someone who considers "Not Fade Away" one of the best series finales ever shown on a TV screen, I'm kinda cold about this epilogue; it's going to take one HELL (pardon the pun) of a comic to sell me on this as a continuation of the TV series, and so far it's not really ringing any bells. Nice to have it, and there's some good stuff here that makes me curious to see where it's going, but based on the first issue I won't go out of my way to be excited over it (or shell out hard-earned cash for the TPBs) unless something truly spectacular happens.

Comments

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

So if this is somehow roughly the same timeframe as "Season 8", and both claim to be canon... how come nobody in the Slayer camp (or, for that matter, Twilight) seems to have noticed that most of LA and neighbouring towns have disappeared into Hell? You'd think that would be the sort of thing they would be interested in...?

According to Joss, S8 starts a year and a half after Chosen. So it starts 6 months after these events. And since characters in BtVS weren't talking about their past. I'm not sure they'd be talking about Angel's.

I liked this issue, and I know it's not a popular opinion, but I like the art on BtVS more, I thought the characters' expressions had feelings while in AtS they were very still, no feelings at all.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

According to Joss, S8 starts a year and a half after Chosen. So it starts 6 months after these events.

*After*, yes. Meaning that unless this storyline wraps up very quickly in some neat way that the BtVS crowd would know about, I find it weird that no one would even care that a substantial portion of California containing several people who have been fairly important to Buffy & Co have disappeared off the face of the earth. Even if they were already in Scotland at that point, you'd think the BBC would at least mention it. Oh well.

As for the art, I think I partly agree with you. Urru has the (main) characters right, but no emotions. Jeanty has emotions, but the characters often look like someone else.

[shapinglight]

I find it weird that no one would even care that a substantial portion of California containing several people who have been fairly important to Buffy & Co have disappeared off the face of the earth. Even if they were already in Scotland at that point, you'd think the BBC would at least mention it. Oh well.

It's not that weird if you remember that the characters in BtVS season 8 are (so far) a bunch of pod people.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Even if they were already in Scotland at that point, you'd think the BBC would at least mention it. Oh well.

Maybe it did, and it happened, we don't see the Angel crew fussing over the Scoobies in S5, trying to know what had happened to them, do we? Spike didn't even ask about them until he saw Andrew.

As for the art, I think I partly agree with you. Urru has the (main) characters right, but no emotions. Jeanty has emotions, but the characters often look like someone else.


I think when trying to capture the actor just right, you forget about the emotion, or it's impossible to capture the emotion.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I find it weird that no one would even care that a substantial portion of California containing several people who have been fairly important to Buffy & Co have disappeared off the face of the earth. Even if they were already in Scotland at that point, you'd think the BBC would at least mention it.

Mention it how? "You're listening to BBC 1, and this is the 6.00 o'clock news. It's now been five weeks since Los Angeles disappeared, and the situation is completely unchanged. In other news, the Prime Minister announced..."

To me, the simplest assumption is that LA disappeared some time before Season 8 began, and Buffy and co talked about nothing else for a week. But that was then. How often does Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans come up in conversation nowadays? And that's assuming that LA did actually vanish from the earth - rather than Angel is living in a hell dimension that's just been made to look like LA to his perceptions.

[athenamuze.livejournal.com]

It's already been pointed out, but yep. The fish is from Spike Asylum. He's a relatively "good" guy. And my offer to inform you on tha Tales of the Slayer thing is still good.

[shapinglight]

Good review. Do you mind if I link to it from angel6_atf?

I think NFA is a great series finale too but having recently re-watched the whole of season 5, it's very, very ambiguous so I'm glad to see some of those ambiguities addressed in this first issue, even if it is just to give Angel another reason to feel guilty.

As for Wesley, I've seen this scenario of him not being allowed to die properly because of the W&H contract several times in fanfic and I think it's sort of inevitable it crop up here if only because they all did sign the contract. I rather like the character reset in this instance. Given that his position is now so ambiguous (yeah, this comic is full of ambiguities) it seems right that he'd be acting a little differently. Putting him back in the sort of clothes he wore in BtVS season 3 also places him as the mouthpiece of a not-so wonderful organisation, just like he was then.

As for the glasses, comic book art being what it is and Wesley's looks being rather non-descript (well, very good looking bloke but if you were asked to describe him, medium height, brown hair, blue eyes and that's about it) the glasses are an identifier, like Spike's hair and Angel's forehead etc.When there isn't such a signifier (as with Nina and Connor) it's an awful lot more difficult to identify the character.

Dunno why Wesley would be a ghost, though. Did anyone actually ever touch Lilah in Home? I can't remember.

Anyway, you may not think it's all that but at least there were no horrible continuity cockups, which is something, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Also, sorry to spam your inbox with edited comments.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Do you mind if I link to it from angel6_atf?

If you want, sure.

I think NFA is a great series finale too but having recently re-watched the whole of season 5, it's very, very ambiguous

I disagree, though I don't have time to go into detail about it just now. I think it's a very clear ending, and the only way it could be any clearer would be if, say, Joss had spent 3 years repeating that it's NOT a cliffhanger meant to be continued. ;-)

As for Wesley, I've seen this scenario of him not being allowed to die properly because of the W&H contract several times in fanfic and I think it's sort of inevitable it crop up here if only because they all did sign the contract. I rather like the character reset in this instance.

Well, I never like character resets. I think anything aspiring to continue a story should, well, continue it. Deal with the consequences, to use a much-touted Whedonism. And Wesley being back bugs me; what was the point of killing him if he's just going to come back? Though I agree; we don't know what's up with Wesley, or even if that IS Wesley yet.

Did anyone actually ever touch Lilah in Home?

I'll have to rewatch. Holland definitely touched stuff in Reprise, though.

Anyway, you may not think it's all that but at least there were no horrible continuity cockups

...yet. ;-) But yeah, absolutely.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Oh: I do know that Lilah asked for a glass of water. Presumably, ghosts don't do that.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for giving me an excuse to re-watch "Home"! :-D I can happily report that Lilah is 100% corporeal. Angel smells her, she opens doors, she pulls curtains, she can be strangled...

Which, with Wesley now being a ghost, makes me wonder why Fred isn't a ghost too. She signed the same contracts, she died... Her body is of course otherwise engaged, but if the standard perpetuity clause includes ghosthood, that shouldn't be an issue.

[elisi]

Did anyone actually ever touch Lilah in Home? I can't remember.
Angel slams her up against a wall with his hand around her neck, and she worries about her head coming off. Also she's constantly picking stuff up etc.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

You liked it then? :-)

W&H killed Cordy? Since when? Or was it Fred that W&H killed in this verse?

I assume he means Fred, although as you rightly say, W&H didn't kill her directly (though some of their employees did, and she wouldn't have died if she hadn't gone to work there).

Of course, he doesn't actually specify that he's talking about W&H. Try reading that dialogue on the assumption that "they" are the Powers That Be, the "girl" is Cordelia, and the "stand" he took was signing away the Shanshu, and see where you end up...

why the hell a ghost needs glasses
Morphic resonance.

Kinda indifferent about Nina, especially since judging from her brief scene, she seems to have been given a complete personality transplant.
Truem, although it might make her more interesting, as opposed to the "sweet but naive and innocent foil for Angel" she was on the show. And the new personality can be explained by her werewolfiness affecting her: there's a definite reminder of Vamp Willow about her here. And she was as shocked by her licking the lawyer as the lawyer was!

Continuing the Discworld theme, I'm getting a much stronger Angua vibe off her now.

I want a fish like that.
You can! Just read Asylum and Shadow Puppets. And I'm willing to bet there are Betta George plush stuffed toys available...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

You liked it then? :-)

I didn't DISlike it. Of the (relatively few) Buffyverse comics I've read, this is definitely one of the best so far. I just think the idea of trying for an official continuation past NFA is about as interesting as... let's say a sprinter has just run a world record; you don't bother timing how quickly he walks from the pitch to the showers. The story is told, with a huge fricking THE END, and it's going to take a lot more than what we've been shown so far to restart it for me.

I agree that Fred does look like the most likely "girl." Though I wonder how she ("I am not the damsel in distress!") would feel about being called "a girl" in this context.

Of course, he doesn't actually specify that he's talking about W&H.

"I joined a corporation that was, quite literally, evil incarnate. (...) I didn't change them. They changed me. Then they killed her." Especially given his speech about Fred in "Power Play", I don't see how that could NOT be W&H he's talking about - though I did like your Milton comparison, setting up the PTB as heaven and Angel as Lucifer... and might tie into this, and I could elaborate on that if it wasn't so damn late. :-)

[tessarin.livejournal.com]

And before you ask. No not read it and have no intention of doing so. Still have the latest issue of S8 sitting in its Forbidden Planet bag unread.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

So far, I don't think you're missing anything essential. (It's not like it's canon or anything, haha.)

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

Congrats on the nominations! (Passing on the Angel comic review -- I didn't even know it was out yet! Yep, this is me, busy writing.)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks! And I'm really impressed by you for sticking with it - I got about 10,000 words done before I realized I was ruining the story rather than writing it... :-/

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Congrats with nominations - and thank you for an interesting review.

Kinda indifferent about Nina, especially since judging from her brief scene, she seems to have been given a complete personality transplant.

I like the idea of "two faces of Nina". So far the man\monster dichotomy had been explored only for boyfriends (Angel, Spike, Oz). Time for a girlfriend. :) Writers tried to hint at it in Smile Time, but mostly in comedic vein. ("Bad Nina!") I suppose it will be interesting to see Nina's attitude to her boyfriend when sun and moon keep her "bi-curious". :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I like the idea of "two faces of Nina". So far the man\monster dichotomy had been explored only for boyfriends (Angel, Spike, Oz). Time for a girlfriend.

Good point. Though it would be nice if one of those faces resembled the one we saw on the show... ;-)

[thepadre.livejournal.com]

"Mission Accomplished" has gotten a bunch of nominations!

Not surprised; it's one damn good story! Huzzah! Huzzah!

After the Fall also gave me mixed emotions, but I find myself enjoying it the more I read it. However, in these first issues, as they lay the groundwork for this "season", I certainly will be hoping for great things.

It's what, after all, made the show so special.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

It's what, after all, made the show so special.

The show - agreed. The comics... I'll withhold judgement. ;-)

[elisi]

Just a few quick points - mostly about where I come from...

First of all, of course it's not canon. It's a comic book after all. *However* it might be fic-able (like Asylum and S:SP) - the set-up certainly looks promising. Most of the fic I read & write is post-NFA, and having another story (a professionally produced one, all shiny and stuff) can only ever be a good thing in my book. I'll slot it in alongside all the rest. :)

About 'It all started with a girl', then I wrote meta on the preview pages, so I'll just point you in that direction. :) (For some reason my brain refused to work as well for the rest of the story. But on the first 5 pages I win! Heh.)

That's it - must run again. Hopefully this was a tiny bit helpful?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link!

Hopefully this was a tiny bit helpful?

Well, absolutely; it's a great piece you've got there. I don't think there was much that I hadn't already seen, but very well summed up (though I must say I have a problem with the explanation that W&H killed Fred because she wouldn't have died if she hadn't been there - by the same logic, Buffy killed Tara. Well, almost. But it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over.)

*However* it might be fic-able

Hell, I fic s8 when I'm feeling snarky, so why not? :-)

My big problem with AtF so far is simply... that I really don't care much about it. To be honest, I've always thought that Buffy had a better setup for a sequel than Angel, seeing how they ended; the BtVS characters stepped out into life, the AtS ones into immortality. Anything after that is bound to be a letdown. That, and I'm wondering just how interesting they'll be able to make the series when the only characters remaining who are human or relate to humans are Gwen, Nina and Connor; for all the monsters in the Buffyverse, it was always a story about what it meant to be human. Based on #1 it looks to be well told (if not as well drawn) and as long as I can find it for free I'll keep reading, but I probably won't go out of my way to follow it.

[lilred26x.livejournal.com]

I pretty much mirrored your thoughts on Gunn as I read the comic, except I didn't get that Gunn was a vamp until I read my first review. I did actually think to myself, "When did he get to be such a perv?" :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Heh. I'll confess that I had to read that last page twice before I recognized Gunn. He's got some kind of "giant baby" thing going. Thanks for reading!