Fic: Cloudbusting
Jun. 30th, 2012 11:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Here's a pairing I've never written before.
Title: Cloudbusting
Author:
beer_good_foamy
Fandom: Buffyverse, post-"Not Fade Away". Kind of a crossover with Return Of The Living Dead, though no familiarity is required.
Word count: ~1200
Pairing: Willow/Illyria
Rating: PG13
Summary: Illyria hates how everything human takes time, especially after 20th century technology disappeared in a flash. And having mentioned that, she's not overly fond of zombies either. But if she has to stop the apocalypse, at least she can do it together with the only other being who's almost as powerful as she is. Written for
femslash_minis' apocalypse round, and
snogged's prompt "Crack the sky, steampunk, acid rain" with zombies.
Cloudbusting
The worst thing is how everything takes time. Willow complains about having to do calculations by hand ever since the EMP knocked out everything electronic; Illyria remembers travelling light years in an instant, flitting between dimensions on a whim, making and unmaking with a thought. And here she is, on top of something the humans have laughably named a skyscraper, drenched in tepid stinging rain, using a metal wrench to tighten a bolt that won't fit.
It's been roughly ten days since she and Willow came up here, taking the stairs 108 floors up by muscle power alone, barricading them one by one. At first, she thought the idea was ludicrous. They need her out there with the feeble vampire Slayers who go out in shifts, wearing protective clothing that's eaten through in an hour, trying to hold back the tide of living dead. Not that she can do much that ten superpowered humans can't do in her weakened state, but at least slaughter has a certain simple dignity. But "We kinda need Fred for this... Oh, um, a-and you too, obviously." Willow is perplexing; the woman is almost as powerful as Illyria would like to be and she still gets nervous around her.
It's not that the poison in the rain can really hurt her, but it shuts her in, a sticky cloud where it feels like she can never breathe. Not that she likes having to breathe, but her body's lungs insist on it. As if this world wasn't small enough.
Winifred Burkle's memories are full of theoretical physics; equations, models, primitive attempts to understand, quantify, predict and solve things that should just happen, preferably at one's own instigation. Knowing the rules is pointless without power, and with enough power you can write your own rules. Willow should know that, but whenever Illyria tells her she points out, in a tone that Illyria should find infuriatingly disrespectful, that that's probably exactly what the military thought too. The living dead rise in Louisville and cannot be contained? Declare the city an acceptable loss, drop a nuclear bomb, then go "ooops" when it turns out they just disseminated the zombie plague all over the continental United States. Since then, the sky's been blanketed by black clouds. Since then, humanity has huddled inside shoddily isolated houses while the dead rise and prowl for brains. Since then, she and Willow have been stuck up here, building something that can carry a cure high enough.
Humans and their solutions. Humans and their simple manipulations.
Illyria's skin burns where the rain has eaten through the leather. She's going to need to remake her armour once (if) she gets back down. The first time she climbed back inside the top floor with one of the front seams dissolved, it took her a few seconds to decode Willow's response. She's not sure why it should have taken her that long; it's hardly a surprise that humans find naked flesh titillating.
When Illyria moves her hands over Willow's skin, she gasps as if they burn her, as if the rain still clings to them.
The bolt finally slips into place. This is what they need her for? It isn't even physics, it's just mechanics, the lowest, least godlike of sciences. One that sits in Winifred's Burkle's memories alongside the smell of sawdust, warm Texas sun, slow summer days, soapbox derbies, homemade dams and water wheels in little creeks; calloused loving hands showing her how to tighten a screw, fasten something in a vise, grease an axle. The 24-hour darkness doesn't bother her; her hands know this without thinking, she doesn't need more than the odd glint of light reflected off the metal to know what she's doing. It's just that she shouldn't have to.
They talk about mechanics, magic, chemistry, zombies; hows and whys, causes and effects, actions and reactions. They don't talk about anything that happens after they've talked about that.
They're not sure what the situation is below; ten days ago the hordes were still held back, but now...? Willow occasionally picks up a telepathic link to someone 400 metres below, but most of the time she's too tired to get a clear connection, or too freaked out... too overwhelmed by human emotions by what she hears. Occasionally the moans of the living dead drift up from far below. Sometimes Willow thinks they're getting closer, working their way up floor by floor. Sometimes she needs to have her mind taken off it.
Illyria wishes she'd embrace what she is, stop trying to pretend she's still what she was, that her power hasn't elevated her high above that. ...Willow, that is. (Humans and their pronouns.) Then again, Illyria isn't sure why she cares what Willow pretends.
One more bolt. Done. She wants to take a step back to observe the whole structure (as if gods needed to admire their own work) but the ledge she's standing on is too narrow and it's too dark. No matter, she's seen Willow's blueprints and knows what they've built; a tall mechanical antenna on top of the Willis Tower, all cog wheels, pistons and levers, brass and steel ripped from any metal object they could find on their way up. Technology that would have looked like a museum piece only two weeks ago, in the bygone age of electronics and molded plastics.
Willow once asked her what she was, before - "I mean, before before." If there was ever a time when she wasn't Illyria, primordial god-gender-unspecific-monarch et cetera.
The room at the top is cluttered with discarded blueprints, broken metal parts, a single cot in the corner. Willow looks up when Illyria climbs back inside through the makeshift airlock, her eyes lighting up despite a mostly sleepless week of worrying and doublechecking wild guesses. Even their magic is hard work. "Hey. Everything in place?"
"It is." Illyria strips off what's left of her armour as Willow picks up a towel. Over the past few days it's become a ritual (gods like rituals) - Willow slowly coaxing the poison off her with clean water, a soft towel, cool fingers against Illyria's singed skin, somehow making it possible to breathe again. It's over too quickly; it's a big day.
As Illyria winds the huge pendulum that's going to power the machine, Willow carefully checks the potion she's spent a week on. She lifts the container to the pipe that leads to the roof, and stops. Her hands shake slightly as if the two gallons weighed too much for her to lift. They steady when Illyria steps up behind her and slides her hands down Willow's arms. Through the thin t-shirt separating them, Illyria feels her take a deep breath.
"What are you waiting for?"
Willow laughs nervously. "I just have this feeling like someone's going to have us thrown in Azkaban for... I dunno, building code violations or littering or something. I mentioned that this isn't exactly well-explored territory, right?"
"Let them try after we save them."
Willow raises an eyebrow but doesn't remark on the fact that there's apparently a "we" now. She plants a quick kiss on Illyria's cheek and pours the potion, and they release the catch together.
The pendulum descends, turning the axle that turns the cog that turns the gears that gets the machine above them working. They hear the slight hum as the payload is sucked up and aimed at the dead clouds, the slow grind of moving parts, the Whooosh whooosh of the giant brass pendulum hung from Chicago's tallest building, ripping the black rain like a sheet. They've done what they can, and it'll be hours before they know if it does what it's supposed to. By tomorrow, the skies could be blue again. Theoretically.
Until then, they have nothing but time. And the unspoken knowledge that whatever happens, just happens.
Title: Cloudbusting
Author:
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Fandom: Buffyverse, post-"Not Fade Away". Kind of a crossover with Return Of The Living Dead, though no familiarity is required.
Word count: ~1200
Pairing: Willow/Illyria
Rating: PG13
Summary: Illyria hates how everything human takes time, especially after 20th century technology disappeared in a flash. And having mentioned that, she's not overly fond of zombies either. But if she has to stop the apocalypse, at least she can do it together with the only other being who's almost as powerful as she is. Written for
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
Cloudbusting
The worst thing is how everything takes time. Willow complains about having to do calculations by hand ever since the EMP knocked out everything electronic; Illyria remembers travelling light years in an instant, flitting between dimensions on a whim, making and unmaking with a thought. And here she is, on top of something the humans have laughably named a skyscraper, drenched in tepid stinging rain, using a metal wrench to tighten a bolt that won't fit.
It's been roughly ten days since she and Willow came up here, taking the stairs 108 floors up by muscle power alone, barricading them one by one. At first, she thought the idea was ludicrous. They need her out there with the feeble vampire Slayers who go out in shifts, wearing protective clothing that's eaten through in an hour, trying to hold back the tide of living dead. Not that she can do much that ten superpowered humans can't do in her weakened state, but at least slaughter has a certain simple dignity. But "We kinda need Fred for this... Oh, um, a-and you too, obviously." Willow is perplexing; the woman is almost as powerful as Illyria would like to be and she still gets nervous around her.
It's not that the poison in the rain can really hurt her, but it shuts her in, a sticky cloud where it feels like she can never breathe. Not that she likes having to breathe, but her body's lungs insist on it. As if this world wasn't small enough.
Winifred Burkle's memories are full of theoretical physics; equations, models, primitive attempts to understand, quantify, predict and solve things that should just happen, preferably at one's own instigation. Knowing the rules is pointless without power, and with enough power you can write your own rules. Willow should know that, but whenever Illyria tells her she points out, in a tone that Illyria should find infuriatingly disrespectful, that that's probably exactly what the military thought too. The living dead rise in Louisville and cannot be contained? Declare the city an acceptable loss, drop a nuclear bomb, then go "ooops" when it turns out they just disseminated the zombie plague all over the continental United States. Since then, the sky's been blanketed by black clouds. Since then, humanity has huddled inside shoddily isolated houses while the dead rise and prowl for brains. Since then, she and Willow have been stuck up here, building something that can carry a cure high enough.
Humans and their solutions. Humans and their simple manipulations.
Illyria's skin burns where the rain has eaten through the leather. She's going to need to remake her armour once (if) she gets back down. The first time she climbed back inside the top floor with one of the front seams dissolved, it took her a few seconds to decode Willow's response. She's not sure why it should have taken her that long; it's hardly a surprise that humans find naked flesh titillating.
When Illyria moves her hands over Willow's skin, she gasps as if they burn her, as if the rain still clings to them.
The bolt finally slips into place. This is what they need her for? It isn't even physics, it's just mechanics, the lowest, least godlike of sciences. One that sits in Winifred's Burkle's memories alongside the smell of sawdust, warm Texas sun, slow summer days, soapbox derbies, homemade dams and water wheels in little creeks; calloused loving hands showing her how to tighten a screw, fasten something in a vise, grease an axle. The 24-hour darkness doesn't bother her; her hands know this without thinking, she doesn't need more than the odd glint of light reflected off the metal to know what she's doing. It's just that she shouldn't have to.
They talk about mechanics, magic, chemistry, zombies; hows and whys, causes and effects, actions and reactions. They don't talk about anything that happens after they've talked about that.
They're not sure what the situation is below; ten days ago the hordes were still held back, but now...? Willow occasionally picks up a telepathic link to someone 400 metres below, but most of the time she's too tired to get a clear connection, or too freaked out... too overwhelmed by human emotions by what she hears. Occasionally the moans of the living dead drift up from far below. Sometimes Willow thinks they're getting closer, working their way up floor by floor. Sometimes she needs to have her mind taken off it.
Illyria wishes she'd embrace what she is, stop trying to pretend she's still what she was, that her power hasn't elevated her high above that. ...Willow, that is. (Humans and their pronouns.) Then again, Illyria isn't sure why she cares what Willow pretends.
One more bolt. Done. She wants to take a step back to observe the whole structure (as if gods needed to admire their own work) but the ledge she's standing on is too narrow and it's too dark. No matter, she's seen Willow's blueprints and knows what they've built; a tall mechanical antenna on top of the Willis Tower, all cog wheels, pistons and levers, brass and steel ripped from any metal object they could find on their way up. Technology that would have looked like a museum piece only two weeks ago, in the bygone age of electronics and molded plastics.
Willow once asked her what she was, before - "I mean, before before." If there was ever a time when she wasn't Illyria, primordial god-gender-unspecific-monarch et cetera.
The room at the top is cluttered with discarded blueprints, broken metal parts, a single cot in the corner. Willow looks up when Illyria climbs back inside through the makeshift airlock, her eyes lighting up despite a mostly sleepless week of worrying and doublechecking wild guesses. Even their magic is hard work. "Hey. Everything in place?"
"It is." Illyria strips off what's left of her armour as Willow picks up a towel. Over the past few days it's become a ritual (gods like rituals) - Willow slowly coaxing the poison off her with clean water, a soft towel, cool fingers against Illyria's singed skin, somehow making it possible to breathe again. It's over too quickly; it's a big day.
As Illyria winds the huge pendulum that's going to power the machine, Willow carefully checks the potion she's spent a week on. She lifts the container to the pipe that leads to the roof, and stops. Her hands shake slightly as if the two gallons weighed too much for her to lift. They steady when Illyria steps up behind her and slides her hands down Willow's arms. Through the thin t-shirt separating them, Illyria feels her take a deep breath.
"What are you waiting for?"
Willow laughs nervously. "I just have this feeling like someone's going to have us thrown in Azkaban for... I dunno, building code violations or littering or something. I mentioned that this isn't exactly well-explored territory, right?"
"Let them try after we save them."
Willow raises an eyebrow but doesn't remark on the fact that there's apparently a "we" now. She plants a quick kiss on Illyria's cheek and pours the potion, and they release the catch together.
The pendulum descends, turning the axle that turns the cog that turns the gears that gets the machine above them working. They hear the slight hum as the payload is sucked up and aimed at the dead clouds, the slow grind of moving parts, the Whooosh whooosh of the giant brass pendulum hung from Chicago's tallest building, ripping the black rain like a sheet. They've done what they can, and it'll be hours before they know if it does what it's supposed to. By tomorrow, the skies could be blue again. Theoretically.
Until then, they have nothing but time. And the unspoken knowledge that whatever happens, just happens.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-30 10:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 09:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-30 02:36 pm (UTC)Thanks so much for taking on my prompt. :)
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Date: 2012-07-01 09:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-30 04:58 pm (UTC)Also, Return of the Living Dead!!!
Wheeeeeeeeeee!
Awesome! And very well done! Truly.
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Date: 2012-07-01 09:01 pm (UTC)Return Of The Living Dead is one of my all-time favourite movies. I've been waiting for a chance to work it into a Buffy fic for years. :)
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Date: 2012-06-30 06:24 pm (UTC)Again, I like the little homespun references to Fred's childhood. Very touching.
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Date: 2012-07-01 09:03 pm (UTC)(And as far as I'm concerned, this fic isn't Season 8-related at all, haha.)
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Date: 2012-06-30 06:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-30 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 09:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 12:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 09:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-02 05:11 pm (UTC)I just read a fascinating comment in a "fave characters" post about how Willow is the most Nietzschean character and the only one above morality and is making herself into a god...and I thought immediately: Illyria. And now look! Together! I like to think this might be just the beginning. And then I am frightened.
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Date: 2012-07-02 08:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-03 11:32 pm (UTC)ahem
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Date: 2012-12-03 11:11 pm (UTC)I read your comment and immediately thought of local_max, when he commented on my lj the other day that she was more transgressive than buffy. I've been branching out a bit in fanfic and the show, and also remembering why I found Willow so fascinating to begin with.
And now look! Together! I like to think this might be just the beginning. And then I am frightened.
*nods* I had no trouble reading this and imagining an entire series or saga from this.
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Date: 2012-12-04 10:34 am (UTC)Thanks! I can see that too, I just don't necessarily want to write it - it'd get pretty bleak pretty fast, plus writing Illyria (especially for drama, and especially in a pairing) is hard. But I like the way they bounce off each other, so...
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Date: 2012-12-04 01:41 pm (UTC)*nods* As I discovered for myself when I first started writing fanfic almost ten years ago in another fandom 'verse, sustaining a story - with, you know, an actual plot - is so much harder than doing ficlets and drabbles. I actually had enough drafts written longhand for several novels, but I kept changing my mind as time went on ("Oh, what if...?") but none of it struck me as interesting to anyone but myself. (And crappy to boot.)
It's funny that even though I haven't watched AtS beyond a few episodes (someday, probably, but not now), Illyria has quickly become one of my favorite Buffyverse characters entirely via fanfiction. (there's a scene in one of brutti_ma_buoni's Rulesverse stories in which Giles observes Illyria serving as a sort of "counselor" for one of the new Slayers that just kills me.) Her/It works so beautifully in both comedic and dramatic stories.
Btw- I'm not a fan of horror or zombie movies either so I wasn't aware of the specific references here in that regard, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the story. I always appreciate those sorts of things in stories - if I recognize the layers, then great; if not, no worries, it's still a good story.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-04 02:23 pm (UTC)Oooooh yes. Hence all the ficlets and very few multi-part stories on my list. (Though having said that, I'm about to start posting a multi-part fic, though that's mostly because I'm running out of time for a deadline...)
Her/It works so beautifully in both comedic and dramatic stories.
And that's another problem in writing her. I don't feel entirely right using any pronoun at all for Illyria. (Especially after the Angel comics reduced her to kissing male characters and wanting babies.)
Btw- I'm not a fan of horror or zombie movies either so I wasn't aware of the specific references here in that regard, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the story. I always appreciate those sorts of things in stories - if I recognize the layers, then great; if not, no worries, it's still a good story.
Heh. This isn't really much of a crossover, I'm just calling it that so I don't have to call the backstory a blatant theft. :) Aside from the idea of the military dealing with a localized outbreak in Kentucky by nuking Louisville, which spreads the zombie apocalypse across the entire country via acid rain, there's really not much of Return Of The Living Dead in here.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-03 11:21 pm (UTC)OK, so, I hope this is okay, but I am basically imagining this as taking place in Epitaph era Dollhouse where the zombie plague is actually Butchers. Because I am behind on my Romero I mean Dan O'Brien??? because I'm behind on my zombie flicks.
I do love this, though. I love how you link it to what norwie said in s'kat's thread, also -- and the general idea of Willow trying to maintain her humanity while she goes more godlike while Illyria tries to prevent humanity seeping in while she comes closer to us. (If we did do Dollhouse, hm, would this be Echo in the Willow role and maybe Alpha in the Illyria role?)
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Date: 2012-07-04 10:03 am (UTC)Willow trying to maintain her humanity while she goes more godlike while Illyria tries to prevent humanity seeping in while she comes closer to us
Exactly! I often start my fics with some short epigram, but I couldn't think of one that fit this fic - until just yesterday, so here it is:
Humans need fantasy to be human, to be the place where the fallen angel meets the rising ape.
- Terry Pratchett
Also, off-topic and probably just a coincidence, but I just found this out the other day, re: Willow's identity. Of course, the story beind a lot of Jewish surnames is empress Maria Theresa decided to "integrate" them by giving them German-sounding names. (It didn't really work.) What I didn't know was that one of the people hired to come up with credible names was... ETA Hoffmann, of The Nutcracker fame. One of the names he came up with was "Rosenberg." Willow's name was made up by the father of the horror genre. (And Fred had her first sexual dream about the Mouse King.)
(And speaking of classic horror movies, she shares a first name with Britt Ekland's character in wicca-inspired The Wicker Man, whose father is Lord Summersisle, played by
DraculaChristopher Lee... but now I'm really reaching.)no subject
Date: 2012-07-06 09:57 pm (UTC)Exactly! I often start my fics with some short epigram, but I couldn't think of one that fit this fic - until just yesterday, so here it is:
Humans need fantasy to be human, to be the place where the fallen angel meets the rising ape.
- Terry Pratchett
That's very nice, and very much along the lines of where I've been thinking lately. You know, it occurs to me that "magic" in the Buffyverse is, in part, about this very imagination: the idea of being able to remake the world and yourself through ideas and knowledge, fantasy incarnate. Which -- what do you do when you get a computer hacker to narrate her own story and the world around her? You get first disaster, and then, with help from more Earth-bound Buffy, a (hopefully) better world. "Something Blue" is maybe the clearest instance of Willow as (unintentional) narrator (though you can see it, too, with Anya[nka] in The Wish/Doppelgangland). Apes are physical beings who can't control their environment (much); angels are ethereal beings who could in principle control everything. Humans in between, accepting the limits of the world around and modifying them. Which, a narrower version of apes/angels is cavemen/astronauts (or to continue in Whedonverse, actives/dumbshows, River/reavers). Cavemen do eventually win, if you take away astronauts' weapons (physical world eventually overwhelms the abstract, maybe), but what happens if the astronauts keep their weapons? I am just riffing now. But somehow the image of Willow and Illyria at the top of the tower really does fit the cavemen/astronaut imagery very well, Illyria in a caveman body, Willow reaching for the stars.
Also, off-topic and probably just a coincidence, but I just found this out the other day, re: Willow's identity. Of course, the story beind a lot of Jewish surnames is empress Maria Theresa decided to "integrate" them by giving them German-sounding names. (It didn't really work.) What I didn't know was that one of the people hired to come up with credible names was... ETA Hoffmann, of The Nutcracker fame. One of the names he came up with was "Rosenberg." Willow's name was made up by the father of the horror genre. (And Fred had her first sexual dream about the Mouse King.)
That's really interesting. So -- well, Fred's sexual dream about the Mouse King reminds me, too, of Willow's disdainful description of herself as "mousy," and of course the Mouse King is the ruler of the mice, and Willow's in charge of keeping Amy in her cage? (Xander also described Warren, in Seeing Red, as "Mighty Mouse, emphasis on the might," which I think adds to the list of Willow/Warren parallels.) But no, I guess these are all not quite connecty, except that the reference to the Mouse King means that the Nutcracker is in Whedon lore.
I can definitely see, re: Britt Ekland (whom I mostly know as "one of Peter Sellers' wives"), Willow living on Lord Summersisle, or Sunnydale, which is Buffy's town where she will always be in the shadow of Buffy, unless she fights her way out (becoming evil in the process, because you can only even potentially defeat Buffy if you're the Big Bad), but then chooses to live back in Summers' isle/town. Of course, willows (probably) blossom in summers and Willow also blossoms being near Miss Summers....
no subject
Date: 2012-07-08 11:21 pm (UTC)You get what you get when you have a computer programmer do something by themselves without the aid of a system architect: trial and error, with constant bugfixes and a non-userfriendly interface. :)
Which, a narrower version of apes/angels is cavemen/astronauts (...) Hey have you seen season five of Mad Men yet?
Oh yeah, there's another epigram: "She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut." (Bert Cooper) Except neither Willow nor Illyria die in this, even though it's doubtful if they're still what they define themselves as.
Which is to say yes, I've seen s5. Thought it was often brilliant, though in the end it felt a bit like a lead-up to s6 (I'm guessing).
Cavemen do eventually win, if you take away astronauts' weapons (physical world eventually overwhelms the abstract, maybe), but what happens if the astronauts keep their weapons?
Ah yes, that old favourite. :) For starters, I always disagreed that cavemen win, with or without weapons. Cavemen were hunter-gatherers who spent their entire lives just above starvation, not necessarily brawlers, while (most) astronauts all have military training including hand-to-hand combat. But even so, astronauts' best weapons are their brains, or rather their knowledge of what is possible. Speaking of Star Trek, remember Kirk's comment about Khan still thinking two-dimensionally...?
Buffy's right to be the sole arbiter of good is so unquestioned that it takes becoming the Big Bad and for Buffy to be completely useless in stopping her (though she saves Jonathan and Andrew and Dawn) for Willow to knock a big enough chink in Buffy's Sole Protagonist armour for Buffy to herself realize that that is the key to saving the world the next year.
Oh, I like that.
I've been feeling a little washed up in Willow Should Know Her Place land lately
Urgh. Yeah, I really know what you mean. I had a discussion with someone over at Mark Watches who told me that "Frankly, you can't deny that everything Willow does with magic helps no one but... herself!" and I had to sit on my hands to not respond "Frankly, you don't make an argument simply by using the word 'frankly' and dramatic ellipses." I get why a lot of people have a hard time with Willow's s6-s7 arc, but I really think both the show and the character needs both Willow and Spike (and to a lesser extent Faith) to serve Buffy's story. (Plus, the whole underlying "Wanting power is a bad thing unless it was arbitrarily given to you against your will!" message is... like I said, urgh.)
I saw that discussion and I basically agreed with you, but yeah, it didn't seem like the right place to continue it. I need to get a few things in order and we may have a post to discuss stuff like that soon... :) (And tbh I always feel a bit light-headed when discussing philosophy with norwie - hell, he's READ all that stuff. :) ) I keep thinking lately about that Doctor Who line, the "question hidden in plain sight": Buffy The Vampire Slayer isn't just the title of the show, it's the problem to be solved. The narrative is its own enemy. Its purpose is to be strong enough to destroy itself. (And there's that Cabin In The Woods ending again...)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-06 10:18 pm (UTC)* I count Xander less because his instincts to question Buffy's authority, while often genuine, also arise from his presumption that as the guy he's the hero of the story; Willow, Faith and Dawn have to work much harder to get the confidence to consider challenging the established order that Buffy is the leader (Willow), the REAL slayer (Faith), or that Dawn is Buffy's sister instead of Buffy being Dawn's sister.
ETA: While I'm happy for him -- I'm a little miffed Norwie took this week off! :) no, I'm not really. But I am itching to continue the Ubermensch discussion. Did you see my comments in shadowkat's thread? I am not sure I want to continue spamming that thread right now. But I'm really interested in the implications. I'd say that it's basically true that Willow doesn't have a "redemption" arc per se in season seven, though there are big elements of repentance there -- but I'd say s6 shows her the dark side of her power (the mindrapey, flaying, world-ending side), including her power to break established moral rules and set up her own ethical systems, SO THAT she can embrace the light side of it fully in s7 (the empower-the-world-against-conventional-wisdom side). And I do think that it all comes down to Computer Hacking as Willow's life model. You're given a flawed system that operates according to a series of rules that don't make sense, so to get the desired ends, you repurpose code. And eventually create a personal ethical system out of scraps. Which is probably both Sartre and Nietzsche in some mixture, though my philosophical background is a bit of a fuzzy blank space.
Hey have you seen season five of Mad Men yet?
/sorry, really chatty today, don't know why
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Date: 2012-07-31 01:28 am (UTC)All nominations MUST be accepted. To do so, please respond to this comment. You only have to respond once per round, (in the event that you receive this message more than once for multiple nominations). We ask you to post a link back to us using one of our site buttons, however this is not required to win.
Your nominations:
Cloudbusting by
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Re: You've been Nominated at Kinda Gay Awards!
Date: 2012-07-31 10:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-04 12:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-04 10:31 pm (UTC)And writing explicitly about sex from Illyria's perspective would have been really weird. :)
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Date: 2013-01-04 10:55 am (UTC)It's wonderful anyway. The pairing works really well.
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Date: 2013-01-05 01:36 am (UTC)Five Stories That Just Are That Good 2012
Date: 2013-01-07 01:24 pm (UTC)