Game of Thrones 8.02
Apr. 22nd, 2019 10:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beer_good_foamyAh, so this is the episode where they're all going to die tomorrow so now the people who want to bone bone and the people who want to snark snark and the rest get drunk. So, some really good character beats throughout.
Jaime gets his day in court! "The things we do for love..." ...Well, that was easy, no kneeling or anything. But Bran just keeps a-starin'. "How do you know there is an afterwards?" That's one weight in the scales of "Bran is team whitewalker or something entirely else".
Arya practices some knife-throwing. Did you see that guy behind the pillar who ran away when he realised his head was almost a target?
Sansa and Danaerys speak alone about being just when you need to be just and ruthless when you need to be ruthless. And everything's sunshine and roses and grrrl power until the topic of The North and its backstop gets brought up, where Dany abruptly draws one of her red lines. Also, Theon comes back because of course he does.
GHOST! Ghost sighting! And Sam out-snarks Edd! But did I mention that we saw Ghost?
So the dragons and Theon's Cthulhu cultists (unless he chickens out again) will be protecting Bran and they'll be betting everything on killing the Night King, which we can be reasonably sure won't happen in episode 3. And nobody brings up the fact that the Night King has a dragon of his own? Is this good strategy? And did Tyrion actually get any useful information out of Bran?
That entire scene around the fire is wonderful. Thormund weaponising the concept of TMI, and possibly actually getting to Brienne a bit. Jaime knighting Brienne. JAIME KNIGHTING BRIENNE. Podrick singing a bit. I wish I believed them when they said "Fuck tradition", but this is all very bottom-of-third-act stuff, however nicely done.
The Hound and Arya get to talk. And apparently Berric isn't on her list anymore. So that's nice. And are they really going there with Arya and Gendry? "We're probably going to die soon." FUCK YEAH THEY ARE! Good for Arya. Plus hey, if they survive, that puts her closer to the throne than most. Should Jon and Dany bite it, Gendry is probably the good guys' best bet for a pretender. (You might even argue that he'd be a better king even if they don't bite it, but...)
And Greyworm is soooo dead. :( DO. NOT. MAKE. RETIREMENT. PLANS. BEFORE. THE. BATTLE. Yeeeesh.
Lyanna Mormont is still worth 20 of everyone else, but calls Jorah "cousin" (awww!) and Sam gives Jorah a sword (awwwwww!) Ser Davos and Gilly sending kids off to probably die in theDeeps of the Hornburg crypt is a nice moment too.
And is Jon going to tell Dany? Is he? IS HE? Yes he IS! "A secret no one in the world knew except your brother and your best friend, does that seem strange to you?" Girl's got a point. And it opens up a question as they head into battle: If given a choice, would Dany (who in her talk with Sansa spoke both about how Jon has "manipulated" her with love, and how you sometimes need to be ruthless) choose to save herself or Jon? But of course, they don't have time to say anything more about that before the arrival of...
Wonder how they spent their last night, hmmm? Anyone want to fic that?
Nice episode with some really good character work, but for the second episode in a row, not much bloody happened, did it? Four episodes to go, you'd better have more in store for us than "Battle scene!" But still, this does give us a basis to guess who'll survive the fall of Winterfell, because they're going to need to sacrifice some actually important pieces soon. Anyone agree/disagree with the following?
- Jon: I'm... not sure? I used to think he was an end player, but something in this episode - mostly his interrupted declaration of being Aegon The Aunt-Fucker - makes me wonder if either he or Dany is going to bite it next week, and he doesn't have dragons on his side. Then again, you'd think they wouldn't introduce the whole Rightful Heir business only to make it moot. I'd say his chances are more than 50% but less than 75%.
- Dany: See above. It'd be typical to leave that discussion unfinished. (Whether it'd be typical for this show is another matter, but the Weiss/Benioff show is very different from the GRRM one...) If Jon's odds are a bit shaky, hers are probably slightly better. They won't both die, at least.
- The dragons: Weren't in this episode, at all, so who knows? I'd be pleasantly surprised if they both make it out, but I'd be even more surprised if both are killed. We still have that big crossbow waiting in Kings' Landing.
- Arya: Will live. They brought up her list again, plus made her actually acknowledge her mortality.
- Sansa: Probably live? Logically everyone who goes into that crypt should be dead, but I have a hard time believing that. They can't kill off everyone whose only superpower is a major in political science. Plus we have Dany's line about her being "ruthless" - what choice will she have to make next week?
- Bran: No fucking clue. I'm not even sure whose side he's on. I wouldn't be half surprised if his plan to play bait is part of some greater scheme. I like how they explain his role here - to be the memory of mankind - but mankind, or at least specific members of it, doesn't have to be alive for him to be that. Also, they've been very obvious about hinting that there's something about that Weirwood tree.
- Theon: Probably about time to kill him off now, but then I've been saying that since season 2.
- Tyrion: See Sansa. Did he google-fu anything useful out of Bran? Please, writers, give us the actually clever Tyrion back, or are we to take it that years of alcoholism have finally dulled his little grey cells? Of course, Dany's declaration that she needs him might not be good for him...
- Varys: Wasn't in this nearly enough to warrant dying.
- Jorah: If Dany lives, it's not looking good for Jorah. If she dies, he'll live. Because the writers are just cruel like that.
- Sam: Not a fighter, despite what he said in this episode, but that might actually be a good thing. Though if his, Jon's and Edd's discussion is anything to go by, only one of them will make it...?
- Ser Davos: Apart from running commentary and general pep-talks, I'm not sure what purpose the writers have for him. He will either make it to the end or be killed off in an emotional way, but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it through this battle.
- Jaime: On very shaky ground. He had way too many sympathetic moments in this episode, plus Bran's hint that they won't both make it through. He may have a destiny to kill his sister, but nobody said he had to be alive to do that... (Seriously, we've barely seen any named characters as wights so far, that's going to have to change.)
- Ser Brienne: Gonna live. Or possibly die proving herself a knight, but I'm going with live.
- Podric: Might just fuck his way out. Or not. He got a lot of focus this week, that doesn't bode well.
- Berric: Honestly not sure. His entire purpose in the in-story story is to perform one great feat of heroism, as The Hound reminded us this week, and I don't see him of all people killing the Night King, at least not in episode 3, so... who knows? Might die saving Bran or somesuch.
- The Hound: Gonna live. He still has to face his brother. (Although Wight!Hound vs Zombie!Mountain would be an interesting Cleganebowl...)
- Thormund: Too tough to die. Then again, he's cheated death way too often. Would make a good sacrifice.
- Greyworm: Sooo dead. :(
- Missandei: Will live. :(
- Edd: Will die, as the last of the brave but redundant Night's Watch.
- Gendry: I'd say he's toast for hooking up with Arya, but he did bring up being Robert's bastard, which might still make him an outside favourite to sit on the throne.
- Lyanna Mormont: Dead, but will go full River Tam and take at least 50 whitewalkers with her.
- The Night King: Will live. In his own special way. There's no way they're stopping the Army of Darkness here. Winterfell will fall, the big question is how badly.
• Episode one – 54 mins <-- Everyone says hello
• Episode two – 58 mins <-- Everyone says goodbye
• Episode three – 60 minutes <-- Fight! Fight! Fight?
• Episode four – 78 minutes
• Episode five – 80 minutes
• Episode six – 80 minutes
Jaime gets his day in court! "The things we do for love..." ...Well, that was easy, no kneeling or anything. But Bran just keeps a-starin'. "How do you know there is an afterwards?" That's one weight in the scales of "Bran is team whitewalker or something entirely else".
Arya practices some knife-throwing. Did you see that guy behind the pillar who ran away when he realised his head was almost a target?
Sansa and Danaerys speak alone about being just when you need to be just and ruthless when you need to be ruthless. And everything's sunshine and roses and grrrl power until the topic of The North and its backstop gets brought up, where Dany abruptly draws one of her red lines. Also, Theon comes back because of course he does.
GHOST! Ghost sighting! And Sam out-snarks Edd! But did I mention that we saw Ghost?
So the dragons and Theon's Cthulhu cultists (unless he chickens out again) will be protecting Bran and they'll be betting everything on killing the Night King, which we can be reasonably sure won't happen in episode 3. And nobody brings up the fact that the Night King has a dragon of his own? Is this good strategy? And did Tyrion actually get any useful information out of Bran?
That entire scene around the fire is wonderful. Thormund weaponising the concept of TMI, and possibly actually getting to Brienne a bit. Jaime knighting Brienne. JAIME KNIGHTING BRIENNE. Podrick singing a bit. I wish I believed them when they said "Fuck tradition", but this is all very bottom-of-third-act stuff, however nicely done.
The Hound and Arya get to talk. And apparently Berric isn't on her list anymore. So that's nice. And are they really going there with Arya and Gendry? "We're probably going to die soon." FUCK YEAH THEY ARE! Good for Arya. Plus hey, if they survive, that puts her closer to the throne than most. Should Jon and Dany bite it, Gendry is probably the good guys' best bet for a pretender. (You might even argue that he'd be a better king even if they don't bite it, but...)
And Greyworm is soooo dead. :( DO. NOT. MAKE. RETIREMENT. PLANS. BEFORE. THE. BATTLE. Yeeeesh.
Lyanna Mormont is still worth 20 of everyone else, but calls Jorah "cousin" (awww!) and Sam gives Jorah a sword (awwwwww!) Ser Davos and Gilly sending kids off to probably die in the
And is Jon going to tell Dany? Is he? IS HE? Yes he IS! "A secret no one in the world knew except your brother and your best friend, does that seem strange to you?" Girl's got a point. And it opens up a question as they head into battle: If given a choice, would Dany (who in her talk with Sansa spoke both about how Jon has "manipulated" her with love, and how you sometimes need to be ruthless) choose to save herself or Jon? But of course, they don't have time to say anything more about that before the arrival of...
Wonder how they spent their last night, hmmm? Anyone want to fic that?
Nice episode with some really good character work, but for the second episode in a row, not much bloody happened, did it? Four episodes to go, you'd better have more in store for us than "Battle scene!" But still, this does give us a basis to guess who'll survive the fall of Winterfell, because they're going to need to sacrifice some actually important pieces soon. Anyone agree/disagree with the following?
- Jon: I'm... not sure? I used to think he was an end player, but something in this episode - mostly his interrupted declaration of being Aegon The Aunt-Fucker - makes me wonder if either he or Dany is going to bite it next week, and he doesn't have dragons on his side. Then again, you'd think they wouldn't introduce the whole Rightful Heir business only to make it moot. I'd say his chances are more than 50% but less than 75%.
- Dany: See above. It'd be typical to leave that discussion unfinished. (Whether it'd be typical for this show is another matter, but the Weiss/Benioff show is very different from the GRRM one...) If Jon's odds are a bit shaky, hers are probably slightly better. They won't both die, at least.
- The dragons: Weren't in this episode, at all, so who knows? I'd be pleasantly surprised if they both make it out, but I'd be even more surprised if both are killed. We still have that big crossbow waiting in Kings' Landing.
- Arya: Will live. They brought up her list again, plus made her actually acknowledge her mortality.
- Sansa: Probably live? Logically everyone who goes into that crypt should be dead, but I have a hard time believing that. They can't kill off everyone whose only superpower is a major in political science. Plus we have Dany's line about her being "ruthless" - what choice will she have to make next week?
- Bran: No fucking clue. I'm not even sure whose side he's on. I wouldn't be half surprised if his plan to play bait is part of some greater scheme. I like how they explain his role here - to be the memory of mankind - but mankind, or at least specific members of it, doesn't have to be alive for him to be that. Also, they've been very obvious about hinting that there's something about that Weirwood tree.
- Theon: Probably about time to kill him off now, but then I've been saying that since season 2.
- Tyrion: See Sansa. Did he google-fu anything useful out of Bran? Please, writers, give us the actually clever Tyrion back, or are we to take it that years of alcoholism have finally dulled his little grey cells? Of course, Dany's declaration that she needs him might not be good for him...
- Varys: Wasn't in this nearly enough to warrant dying.
- Jorah: If Dany lives, it's not looking good for Jorah. If she dies, he'll live. Because the writers are just cruel like that.
- Sam: Not a fighter, despite what he said in this episode, but that might actually be a good thing. Though if his, Jon's and Edd's discussion is anything to go by, only one of them will make it...?
- Ser Davos: Apart from running commentary and general pep-talks, I'm not sure what purpose the writers have for him. He will either make it to the end or be killed off in an emotional way, but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it through this battle.
- Jaime: On very shaky ground. He had way too many sympathetic moments in this episode, plus Bran's hint that they won't both make it through. He may have a destiny to kill his sister, but nobody said he had to be alive to do that... (Seriously, we've barely seen any named characters as wights so far, that's going to have to change.)
- Ser Brienne: Gonna live. Or possibly die proving herself a knight, but I'm going with live.
- Podric: Might just fuck his way out. Or not. He got a lot of focus this week, that doesn't bode well.
- Berric: Honestly not sure. His entire purpose in the in-story story is to perform one great feat of heroism, as The Hound reminded us this week, and I don't see him of all people killing the Night King, at least not in episode 3, so... who knows? Might die saving Bran or somesuch.
- The Hound: Gonna live. He still has to face his brother. (Although Wight!Hound vs Zombie!Mountain would be an interesting Cleganebowl...)
- Thormund: Too tough to die. Then again, he's cheated death way too often. Would make a good sacrifice.
- Greyworm: Sooo dead. :(
- Missandei: Will live. :(
- Edd: Will die, as the last of the brave but redundant Night's Watch.
- Gendry: I'd say he's toast for hooking up with Arya, but he did bring up being Robert's bastard, which might still make him an outside favourite to sit on the throne.
- Lyanna Mormont: Dead, but will go full River Tam and take at least 50 whitewalkers with her.
- The Night King: Will live. In his own special way. There's no way they're stopping the Army of Darkness here. Winterfell will fall, the big question is how badly.
• Episode one – 54 mins <-- Everyone says hello
• Episode two – 58 mins <-- Everyone says goodbye
• Episode three – 60 minutes <-- Fight! Fight! Fight?
• Episode four – 78 minutes
• Episode five – 80 minutes
• Episode six – 80 minutes
no subject
Date: 2019-04-22 05:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-04-22 05:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-04-22 11:13 pm (UTC)That was actually brought up in Episode 1, by Bran, I think. It's when they were all arguing over Jon giving up the crown and bending the knee to Queen Danerys. (I watched Ep 1 and 2 back to back...otherwise I'd have forgotten)
Hmmm predictions on who will die?
Well, it's not going to be Jon, Dany, Sansa, Ayra, and Tyrion -- they are pretty much in it until the last three episodes. Jamie could die, and Ayra could pretend to be him in order to kill Cersei. That's a possibility.
Jamie however does have a hanging plot line regarding Cersei and Bronn...so? But, if I were the writers I'd kill off Jamie now and either have him become a White Walker or have Ayra pretend to be him. Mainly because Bronn has been advised to kill him and Tyrion, and if they kill both off now -- that sort of kills that whole plot line dead in the water. Also it's not that painful to kill off either by White Walker. Sort of anti-climatic.
Sansa, Ayra, Dany, and Jonn, along with Gendry may be required for the fight over the Iron Throne. As much as I'd love to see them kill Sansa off via White Walker -- it isn't happening. They could kill off Gendry, maybe. Also there's still too much story to kill off either Dany or Jonn in the third episode.
That leaves...I think Theon, Bran, and everyone protecting Bran is pretty much going to become White Walkers.
Samwell most likely will survive due to the Jon being a Tarragone plotline. But they might kill his family. I don't see Lyanna, Jorah's cousin making it. And I'll be surprised if the Hound, Jorah, and Berric do -- although it's possible. Agree that Greyworm and most likely 65% of the Unsullied army are dead. Not sure about her translator though...possibly he dies trying to save her, and they die together?
I've decided Davos and the Giant Killer may be unkillable. LOL!
I'm really hoping the dragons make it. They are cool. I'll be annoyed if the Dragons don't make it to the end. They can kill off Dany, Jonn, Ayra, Sansa, Jamie, and Tyrion -- but I want the dragons to survive.
Hmmm, maybe they can't afford to show the Dragons and Ghost, all at the same time? Or Ghost is afraid of the Dragons?
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 09:05 am (UTC)Yeah, which makes it even stranger that they didn't bring it up when discussing how they would actually plan the battle. A pitch battle against a zombie army with zombie cavalry is pretty much unwinnable as it is; whether or not they will have an air force too should matter to how you fight the battle. What's that quote from World War Z:
Then again, the whole strategy seems ridiculous anyway, so maybe it's for the best. They're just going to wing it and hope for the Bravery Of Men to stand up against an army of the dead. Yeah, no.
Jamie however does have a hanging plot line regarding Cersei and Bronn...so?
Which reminds me, who's to say Bronn doesn't show up next episode? Not that I think he'll make any difference in the actual battle, but...
The more I think about it, yeah, Theon is definitely toast. (Finally.) And probably Thormund too, that speech about how he suckled a giantess and that's why he's so strong seems way too much like a final speech. I'm pretty sure The Hound will survive, though, he's one who definitely has storyline left when they get to Kings' Landing.
Or Ghost is afraid of the Dragons?
Or the other way around?
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 12:28 pm (UTC)Then again, the whole strategy seems ridiculous anyway, so maybe it's for the best. They're just going to wing it and hope for the Bravery Of Men to stand up against an army of the dead. Yeah, no.
Considering how well Jon and Dany fared the last time they went up against the White Walkers, and they actually had a workable battle plan -- and three dragons on their side, no dragons on the WW side -- I'd say, yep, they are going to lose big time. The problem is that 90% of the people fighting have no clue what they are going up against and refuse to take those who do, seriously. Sansa and Ayra are about to get their worlds turned inside out again.
I'm willing to bet the WW make it Kings Landing and the Night King makes Cersei his bride.
Which reminds me, who's to say Bronn doesn't show up next episode? Not that I think he'll make any difference in the actual battle, but
Isn't Kings Landing a bit far for him to show up that fast? I mean considering it took everyone else several months to get there. Although I suppose he could, but he's going to be preoccupied with running away from WW. No, I think that will happen in Kings Landing. I honestly think Tyrion will survive this. Not sure about Jamie. He did appear to have too many bits resolved in the last episode. Also, I'd love to see WW Jamie devour Cersei. Although if they are sticking with GRRM's outline for the characters -- my guess is Tyrion or Jamie kill Cersei.
I'm pretty sure The Hound will survive, though, he's one who definitely has storyline left when they get to Kings' Landing.
How's the Hound have storyline left? Unless you mean his undead brother? Because that seems relatively minor...
Why would a huge dragon be afraid of a direwolf -- don't dragons eat direwolves?
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 01:43 pm (UTC)Before s7, I'd have said yes. After that episode where everyone went north of the wall to capture a zombie and were back in time for tea, I'm not sure they care about things like distances anymore. Jaime got there pretty quickly.
How's the Hound have storyline left? Unless you mean his undead brother?
Exactly. Fans have been clamouring for a showdown between those two for years, and the writers have all but confirmed that it WILL happen. So unless The Mountain shows up at Winterfell next episode...
Why would a huge dragon be afraid of a direwolf -- don't dragons eat direwolves?
I was just thinking that it would be a good comedy beat. Ghost growling at the smaller dragon and the dragon whimpering and hiding behind his brother. I'm not saying it's likely... :)
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 05:38 pm (UTC)Hee, yes, comedic, but no. Ghost would be lucky if the dragon didn't eat him. The dragon's snot is the same size as Ghost. Be like the Mountain being afraid of Tyrion.
True. They are managing to get to and from a lot faster nowadays. (Reminds me of comic book and soap opera logistics. The characters get where they need to depending primarily on plot requirements.) But to be fair, everyone left for Winterfell two years ago...(series wise) -- that last episode was a while ago. I've no clue how long it actually took though...
I guess, I didn't realize people cared about a showdown between the Hound and the Mountain? Didn't they already fight? I vaguely remember them fighting...now, I'm not sure it would be fair. The Mountain is undead.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 03:46 am (UTC)My ideal scenario has Jon dying in the finale to save mankind from the Whitewalkers. He's already on borrowed time since he came back from the dead. Then Dany gets the throne, only its an empty victory with the loss of Jon and others. I'm not a Dany stan, but I really don't want King Aegon the 12th, or whatever he is.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-23 09:10 am (UTC)I'm not a Dany stan, but I really don't want King Aegon the 12th, or whatever he is.
I'm not sure I want either of them. I've been hoping for years that the end would be some sort of acknowledgement that the whole way they've set up their government is unworkable and they'll have to change something fundamental if they don't want to repeat the whole thing the next time a monarch dies.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 12:12 pm (UTC)Did you see that guy behind the pillar who ran away when he realised his head was almost a target?
Heh! Yes, I did. that was funny.
And they didn't half go on a lot about the crypt in this episode. Which is very ominous, IMO, for everyone hiding in it.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-28 04:45 pm (UTC)And they didn't half go on a lot about the crypt in this episode. Which is very ominous, IMO, for everyone hiding in it.
I've seen some people point out that hiding in a crypt is an extra bad idea when your enemies can raise the dead. But even without that possibility, it seems like a very obviously bad move.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 09:14 am (UTC)Having seen episode 3, I can't help feeling they missed a bit of a trick with the dead rising in the crypt scene. Sansa could have been confronted with her zombie parents.
Having said which, I don't know if Ned and Catelyn even got buried there.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 10:24 am (UTC)I don't... think so? But yeah, that would have been neat.
Of course, Ned already turned up in "The Battle of the Bastards". :)
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 05:29 pm (UTC)