Game of Thrones 8.04

[beer_good_foamy]

Aaaand once again, the whole thing comes down to Jon Snow utterly failing at NOT being a dumbass.
Jon: They are my family, we can live together.
Dany: We can. I. Just. Told. You. How.
Jon is the luckiest person in Winterfell. Not the smartest, certainly not the best commander, just the luckiest. I'm just not sure that makes him prime kinging material.

OK, it's not JUST him that's being a bit of a dumbass here. Once again everyone disagrees, but nobody discusses any alternatives. When Arya rides off to kill Cersei, it's not as part of any plan, or with any backup or diversions or anything. Hell, Tolkien's characters were smarter than this, and that's saying something. Maybe all those giant crossbows are there to shoot down eagles?

None of this means this isn't a good episode, because it very much is, taking its time to pick over what the battle has revealed and seems to build the long game... before suddenly detonating in the last ten minutes. RIP Rhaegal, RIP Missandei ("Dracarys!"), RIP any long shot at a peaceful solution and at Daenerys listening to anyone's advice ever again.

A few notes:
- Tormund, Sam, Gilly (who IS pregnant!) and Ghost get written out, apparently for good. Which begs the question why they didn't take the chance to kill at least a couple of them off last week, it's not like the writers have come up with a single other use for Ghost for the last four seasons, but hey. And Jon isn't a Stark anymore, so a direwolf doesn't really suit him. BUT AT LEAST PET HIM, YOU MONSTER. SCRITCH HIS EARS EAR.

- They're going to march alllll the way down south just hours after winning a huge battle in the North. Harold Godwinson must be spinning with frustration in his grave.

- Wouldn't it be neat if the last two episodes had the battle of Kings' Landing take place entirely in the background while the main plot focused on Drunk!Tormund? "Vomiting isn't celebrating." "...Yes it is?!" "Which one of you cowards shit in my pants?"

- The Sers finally get it on, but it's not enough to hold Jaime when he finds out that Kings' Landing is about to burn. Does he go off to join Cersei, or to kill her? Does he even know himself? :(

- The way they systematically isolate Daenerys here is very well done and makes perfect sense. Jon is of The North and all heart and no brains, Tyrion is possibly entering the first stages of alcohol-induced dementia, Sansa hates her, Varys was never loyal to her, and Missandei, well. That look on her face at the end...


- And Varys, again, is a voice of reason. Perhaps not THE voice of reason, but at least one who's practical about it. "It's no longer a secret, it's information." I've been waiting for him to do something all season, and that was a classic Varys scene, but Tyrion is no Littlefinger these days. (But who are all these Lords whom Dany supposedly can't impress without a cock? Can't you count the number of Lords left in Westeros on the fingers of Jaime's right hand by now? And isn't it a tiny bit hypocritical of the show to suddenly champion the common man after we haven't seen a single one of them on screen since The Hound robbed that farmer?) ETA: There's more than a bit of "I don't mind female politicians, just not NOW, and not this one who's so emotional" about all this, isn't there?

- Loved the scene with Sansa and the Hound, even if it continues the slightly iffy theme established by Bran: "Without Ramsay, Littlefinger and the rest, I would have stayed a little bird all my life." And the Hound and Arya go off to murder people, because that's who they are - one who cares more than he used to, and one who kills better than she used to. The real Game of Thrones is the friends enemies we made along the way.

- Poor Gendry. There's a metaphor here about how getting what you deserve means giving up what you want. Still not sure that was the smartest move by Dany, but it's not like she's got allies to spare.

- So Bronn can just... waltz into the inner sanctum of Winterfell without anyone noticing? Is there any reason this show didn't end with a few well-placed assassinations three seasons ago?

- So the Big Bad is... Qyburn? Are we setting up a last-minute medieval vs early industrial theme here? And is Urine Greyjoy even luckier than Ramsay Bolton?

- There's no way that was enough pyres to burn all the dead we saw last episode.

- But at least there's a Starbucks in Winterfell now.

Damnit, Missandei.

Comments

[saturnofthemoon]

They decided to have a full grown wolf play Ghost this season and his scenes were filmed off site, away from the rest of the cast. That's why Ghost hasn't physically interacted with anyone lately. :(

[beer_good_foamy]

Thanks. I figured it was something like that, but that's still a pretty cheap cop-out. Considering how much of this is CGI, they could easily have done that if they had any idea of what to do with him. Or at least kill him off to emphasize Jon becoming Aegon, or something.

[goodbyebird]

I'm just watching from afar through people's reactions, would you mind explaining what happened with Missandei? I haven't seen mention of any kind of falling out, and now she's dead *is confused*

[beer_good_foamy]

Short version: Urine Greyjoy ambushes Dany's fleet and shoots down Rhaegal, in the confusion Missandei gets captured. When Dany reaches Kings' Landing to at least give Cersei a chance to surrender (or at least appear to give her a chance before they take Kings' Landing by force), Cersei responds by parading Missandei and demanding Dany's unconditional surrender. That obviously won't happen, so Cersei asks her to say her final words, she looks at Dany and says "Dracarys", and then the Mountain cuts her head off.

It's... not the best look for anyone involved. But at least her final word is the one that set her free all those years ago?

[rogin]

Sounds to me like her final words are the order to attack. Sounds like "avenge me".

[beer_good_foamy]

Oh, definitely. It's a very defiant moment. But also a nice (well, not nice) tie-back to how she ended up in this fight to begin with.

I just can't type out that phrase without flashing back to Red Dawn.

[goodbyebird]

Oh, that makes more sense! I though Dany has her executed or some shit, I didn't follow at all. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Thanks for explaining!

[rogin]

Varys turn seems a bit off to me.

In my opinion Jon's claim was very weak until Daenerys let him ride Rhaegal. Before that there was no reason for anyone to believe him.

Still, as a champion for the common people, she still has at least equal credentials as Jon. At least Missandei seems to think so. Varys is too quick to turn coats here in my opinion. Looking at the narrative,things really look bad for Dany. She is no longer sold as the hero.

I'm not the world's biggest fan of the "rape made me smart" spin they are trying to sell with Sansa.

[beer_good_foamy]

I'm not the world's biggest fan of the "rape made me smart" spin they are trying to sell with Sansa.

Yeah, the more I think about this episode, the more there are some pretty icky things in it. It builds logically on the ideas that Bran has been selling all season, but... I'm still not convinced Bran isn't just another teenager who thinks he's figured it all out because he spends all his time reading paranormal Reddit, so I don't know why she would listen to him.

Same with Varys, really; both he and Bran are being sold as infallible wise know-it-alls when they're anything but. Varys has, from the very beginning, pledged allegiance to The Realm. Which is fine, and all, but it's also meant that he's never had to stand for anything - he's the typical idealist who abandons any ruler as soon as their goals differ from his. I do think he has at least part of a point, especially now that the narrative has become hellbent on painting Dany into a corner; she's not going to give this all up now, especially not after Missandei got fridged, and anyone in Kings' Landing not wearing full-body asbestos suits should think hard about a vacation. But I don't see how Jon is the better alternative - unless he means that Jon can be easily controlled by clever advisers, which doesn't seem very likely either after this episode.

Eh. As formerly Team White Walker, I'm leaning towards Team Burn Them All. They seem to be heading towards a full reset ending where everything's the same as it was before the show started anyway.

[rogin]

I thought Varys was dismissing the marriage option too easily. It would be a way better solution than any alternative. They need to stand together or Cersei will defeat them and kill them all.

The north would be way more eager to help if their king became the king and Daenerys will have to marry anyway, because she needs to offer a future line.

The mild dislike of incest is manageable compared to a fight between them.

And yeah, Daenerys is going to burn everything down, but that's probably best.

Hope Uncle Urin dies soon.

[shapinglight]

There's more than a bit of "I don't mind female politicians, just not NOW, and not this one who's so emotional" about all this, isn't there?

Yes, there is, and I don't like it. Like you, I feel like Dany's been boxed into a corner by the narrative. She's been set up to fail, even though the only reason she's in the position she's in is because she agreed to help save Westeros from the Night King. I'm quite upset on her behalf.

As for Jon, his mopey looks are getting on my nerves so much I'm pretty much team Burn Them All as well.

ETA: I just glanced at a few reviews of the episode and most people seem to hate it. One person just thought it was dumb, another hates Dany because of the whole White Saviour thing, a third thinks the way she's being written now is anti-feminist.

I'm leaning more to that last one myself.

[beer_good_foamy]

I find it hard to hate the episode, I think it pays off a lot of the stuff that the season has been setting up, and while there's a lot of character decisions I want to roll my eyes at I do think as a piece of television it does a good job getting the story from point B to point C. But yeah, while GoT has never been half as feminist as it's liked to pretend, there's something off about how most of the characters' choices seem to point in a certain direction - it's like, I don't NOT buy that Dany would react this way in this situation, or that Ser Brienne would react this way in this situation, or that Sansa or Missandei or Cersei or... but put them all next to each other in an episode meant to set up the end, well, it's hard not to think the writers want us to read it a certain way.

As for Jon, his mopey looks are getting on my nerves so much I'm pretty much team Burn Them All as well.

Here's what I don't get: If they want to build up Jon as the right (and not just the rightful) king, as they seem to want to do right now, why wouldn't they have him... do anything to actually prove it? So far this season he has failed to build a lasting alliance, failed at planning a battle, failed to do much beyond survive the battle, failed to notice the conflict brewing after the battle, failed to plan for the next war, and leaked information that's guaranteed to exacerbate those conflicts. That doesn't make him a good king, it makes him a supporting character in an Armando Ianucci comedy. Beyond giving speeches, not dying, and looking cute, what does he actually DO?

[shapinglight]

If they want to build up Jon as the right (and not just the rightful) king, as they seem to want to do right now, why wouldn't they have him... do anything to actually prove it?

So true. It'd better mean something.

[bruttimabuoni]

Because I'm still catching up on unwatched seasons, I have just watched Dany flaming the Tarlys, and Varys's deep unease over it, and I feel very much like this episode is paying that off. Dany may be okay. Dragons are not okay, not in this world where they are so out of scale, and I think that's Dany's problem. (I am very much not Team Burn Everything. I am Team Living Humans.)

I do really hope Jon Snow isn't all the answer, though. I'm enjoying how the old Houses are being replaced now that they are running out of adult men of the main line. Seven Queens, anyone?

[beer_good_foamy]

Dany may be okay. Dragons are not okay, not in this world where they are so out of scale, and I think that's Dany's problem.

That's a very good point, only right now, the dragons... or dragon isn't looking nearly as invincible anymore. Qyburn has won the arms race. But yeah, weapons of mass destruction that answer to one single individual is a problem that's hard to solve.

I don't necessarily want to be Team Burn Them All. (I was Team White Walker partly because I hoped there'd be more to them than just Death Personified. My mistake.) But it would help so much if Team Living Humans gave me something to cheer for instead of just having everyone make mistakes. Part of the reason this show felt so fresh way back in the early seasons was that you had some people who were playing out the traditional fantasy tropes, and some who were just ruthless and competent. I was hoping the big payoff would be that Our Heroes would learn to actually be good at what they do. Instead it's just turning into a punchdrunk version of the third act of Return of the King.

Seven Queens, anyone?

Fine by me. At this point even Cersei is looking better than Jon.

[shadowkat]

But at least there's a Starbucks in Winterfell now.

Co-worker: did you see Game of Thrones on Sunday?
Me: Yes.
Co-worker: did you notice the starbucks cup in the celebration scene?
ME: Uhm no. But I clearly wasn't paying that close of attention...seriously?
Co-worker: Yep, it made the national news, -- so it must be true.

LOL!

Oh dear, I loved the Varys and Tyrion scene, and like the theme -- but I also agree very strongly with what you state above. I honestly think Jon Snow is far too stupid to be king. And I like Dany, I despise how they are writing her and how they've decided to systematically take away everyone she cared for and all of her support. And dammit, stop killing the Dragons, Thrones.

At least Ghost survived. But I felt so sorry for him. He looked so betrayed...half an ear and abandoned by Jon. Jon also abandoned the dragon -- who got killed.

I didn't think certain plot points worked. Why take an army that just wore itself out fighting the undead, to Kings Landing the next morning or day? Sansa's right. That's a dumbass move. You'd think Dany would know that, not to mention Jon from their own experiences fighting battles.

And what's going on with Jamie? All of a sudden he decides to go to King's Landing?

It feels as if once the writers ran out of book to adapt, they began to get clumsy. And are rushing to wrap it up?

That said, there were some really good isolated moments in that episode.

[beer_good_foamy]

I honestly think Jon Snow is far too stupid to be king. And I like Dany, I despise how they are writing her and how they've decided to systematically take away everyone she cared for and all of her support. .

Yep.

At least Ghost survived. But I felt so sorry for him. He looked so betrayed...half an ear and abandoned by Jon. Jon also abandoned the dragon -- who got killed.

Jon Snow: Worst. Pet. Owner. Ever.

You'd think Dany would know that, not to mention Jon from their own experiences fighting battles.

You'd also think they'd expect a trap. You'd also think they'd use the dragons to keep lookout rather than just as transport. ...Then again, you'd also think Cersei would take the opportunity to just kill Tyrion, Dany and the dragon when they walk right up to the city gates, so maybe there's something in the water all over the seven kingdoms.

[shadowkat]

You'd also think they'd expect a trap. You'd also think they'd use the dragons to keep lookout rather than just as transport. ...Then again, you'd also think Cersei would take the opportunity to just kill Tyrion, Dany and the dragon when they walk right up to the city gates, so maybe there's something in the water all over the seven kingdoms.

Yep. I was discussing this with two co-workers today. We all agreed that it made no sense that a) Missandra didn't just leap off the side, as opposed to waiting for someone to execute her, b) that the plot makes no sense -- and why would they show up with a small army at the gates, and no dragon, and ask for surrender? c) WTH was Tyrion thinking? Does he have blinders on where Cersei is concerned? And will Dany let him live for the bad advice?

I think the writers knew what they were doing with the White Walkers and had that well plotted and put everything they had into Episode 3, and now, are sort of...well stumbling about in the dark?