Actually the blood doesn't flow in the body, it circulates. If I'd written the scene I would have had Xander say "Okay, so we stick a Band-Aid on Dawn and everything's fixed, right?" to which Giles would reply "I'm afraid not. This text was written before William Harvey discovered the circulation of the blood in 1628 and it uses the archaic meaning of 'flow'. It stops, in this sense, when Dawn is dead."
Unfortunately what Joss knows about science could be written on the back of a cigarette packet - he doesn't even know the meaning of the word 'theory' - and he may not even be aware that the blood circulates.
Lol, that would be ...interesting... dialogue. I think it's fairly self-explanatory tbh, and Giles does say something along the lines of 'in this context, it means ie. when Dawn is dead.' And the term 'bloodflow' etc is still used (though I assume not by scientists) to described the flow or circulation of blood... I don't think in general that people are aware of the difference, and even if they were, they would also be aware that in the context of ancient ceremonies and ancient texts, blood ceasing to flow would mean lack of life.
The exact dialogue is GILES: (reads from book) "The blood flows, the gates will open. The gates will close when it flows no more." (removes his glasses) "When Dawn is dead."
He's quoting in the first part, not quoting after he removes his glasses. The text doesn't say that she must be dead, that's Giles' interpretation, and to me it doesn't follow from the text at all. 'When it flows no more' just means 'when she stops bleeding'; after all, 'the blood flows' doesn't mean 'when she comes to life' so why should the stopping mean that she dies?
Stories in which Dawn's bleeding is stopped non-fatally are not uncommon - in one, I remember, a styptic pencil is used - and I've never ever seen anyone in comments or reviews complaining about this not being a valid interpretation. It's just one instance among many of Joss being scientifically illiterate, and not concerned with the internal logic behind the story he wants to tell, and ending up not saying what he means.
The worst example, of course, is the song 'I've Got A Theory' where 'theory' is used to mean 'wild guess with no supporting evidence'. I blame Joss for the Creationists' 'It's only a theory' attack on Evolution as this inaccurate usage of the word was nothing like as widespread before 'Once More With Feeling' aired (and, as Season 8 showed, Joss is himself a Creationist with no understanding of Evolution).
The worst example, of course, is the song 'I've Got A Theory' where 'theory' is used to mean 'wild guess with no supporting evidence'.
That is the colloquial meaning of the word "theory". Really, you ought to blame scientists for using a word that already had a specific colloquial meaning for something slightly different, and thus confusing lay people the world over.
I don't know... I'm completely with you on the sadly common misunderstanding of the word "theory" in scientific contexts, and there's really no defending the Season 8 clusterfuck, but using the word "theory" to mean "slightly qualified guess" in regular conversation is pretty widely accepted and has been for a long time. The word has two different meanings depending on the context. That's exactly why creationists et al can get away with the "It's just a theory" nonsense.
That said, it would be fun to do a Serious Scientific AU of that scene. Let's see, Giles as Newton, Buffy as Einstein, Willow as Feynman, Tara as Hawking, Xander as Bill Bryson, and Anya as an Intelligent Design supporter... :)
JESUS! JESUS, IT MUST BE JESUUUUUUS! ...Or maybe aliens.
'A long time' means something very different from the perspective of someone nearly 60. And the colloquial meaning of 'theory' has changed dramatically in my lifetime. It used to mean 'a suggested explanation which seems to fit the facts as I see them' and if I was writing a story set prior to November 6th 2001 I'd be very wary about having a character use it in any other way. If I was writing a story set after that date, and if the speaking character was a layman, I'd use it to mean 'a wild guess with no supporting evidence whatsoever'.
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Date: 2012-07-19 06:01 pm (UTC)Unfortunately what Joss knows about science could be written on the back of a cigarette packet - he doesn't even know the meaning of the word 'theory' - and he may not even be aware that the blood circulates.
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Date: 2012-07-19 08:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-19 09:05 pm (UTC)GILES: (reads from book) "The blood flows, the gates will open. The gates will close when it flows no more." (removes his glasses) "When Dawn is dead."
He's quoting in the first part, not quoting after he removes his glasses. The text doesn't say that she must be dead, that's Giles' interpretation, and to me it doesn't follow from the text at all. 'When it flows no more' just means 'when she stops bleeding'; after all, 'the blood flows' doesn't mean 'when she comes to life' so why should the stopping mean that she dies?
Stories in which Dawn's bleeding is stopped non-fatally are not uncommon - in one, I remember, a styptic pencil is used - and I've never ever seen anyone in comments or reviews complaining about this not being a valid interpretation. It's just one instance among many of Joss being scientifically illiterate, and not concerned with the internal logic behind the story he wants to tell, and ending up not saying what he means.
The worst example, of course, is the song 'I've Got A Theory' where 'theory' is used to mean 'wild guess with no supporting evidence'. I blame Joss for the Creationists' 'It's only a theory' attack on Evolution as this inaccurate usage of the word was nothing like as widespread before 'Once More With Feeling' aired (and, as Season 8 showed, Joss is himself a Creationist with no understanding of Evolution).
no subject
Date: 2012-07-20 08:28 am (UTC)That is the colloquial meaning of the word "theory". Really, you ought to blame scientists for using a word that already had a specific colloquial meaning for something slightly different, and thus confusing lay people the world over.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-20 10:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-20 01:00 pm (UTC)That said, it would be fun to do a Serious Scientific AU of that scene. Let's see, Giles as Newton, Buffy as Einstein, Willow as Feynman, Tara as Hawking, Xander as Bill Bryson, and Anya as an Intelligent Design supporter... :)
JESUS! JESUS, IT MUST BE JESUUUUUUS! ...Or maybe aliens.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-20 01:33 pm (UTC)