Meta: Big Dawn Coming

[beer_good_foamy]

Growing up in public with your pants on

You know, I miss Dawn Summers.

I know I probably lost a couple of readers right there; Dawn isn’t everyone’s favourite character. But still, I really liked her; she’s bubbly, she’s a bit of a klutz, she’s smarter than people give her credit for, she’s a bit selfish but even at her normal size she’s got a heart as big as a whale. She grew into an extraordinary young woman on the show and it’s a pity that she hasn’t been seen in the comics.

OK, well, obviously she is in the comics – lately, she’s occupying roughly half of Scotland and smashing up castles with her fist. Granted, that was fun at first. But the joke has been told, it’s time to move on and the simple matter is this:

I don’t care why Dawn is a giant. Really. I'll happily joke about her being a giant, it's certainly food for crackfic, but I well and truly don’t give a shit why. I just want her to stop being a silly giant. Nao plz.

Let me try to explain why, because it may sound a bit weird considering that some of my gripes with the comics (the impossibility of Warren aside) have been the lack of explanation for the character development that seems to have taken place between “Chosen” and “The Long Way Home”. But my problem with that isn't that I don't want characters to develop – I'm just enough of a perv to want to watch them doing it, especially since (assuming that this is still a character-driven rather than plot-driven series) the motivations of the characters are of the utmost importance.

Dawn growing to 20 times her size, however, is not character development, merely character magnification. One or two lines aside (“Like a mom to me”? And why the hell wouldn’t she have strength proportional to her size?) I have no huge problem with s8’s characterization of Dawn, at least the little bits of it we get to see; as reasons to mope and feel sorry about oneself go, being 100 feet tall and trapped in Scotland is a pretty good one. And I suppose we’ll eventually find out why Joss wants her to be a giant – ie why it’s important to the story he wants to tell.

But it’s the constant teasing within the story of WHY she’s a giant that really annoys me – as if we're expected to sit around waiting excitedly for some big revelation concerning a subplot that has now gone on for almost a year with no hint of advancement. Because if we’re not given a good reason (or even a hint that one is forthcoming) for why one of the major characters has been turned into a one-joke angst machine, it’s hard to think of her as a major character no matter what her size is.

It's especially annoying since the problem with Dawn goes back a long way, but looked to be fixed. It's the age thing; when Dawn was introduced in s5 she was 14, often written even younger, and the rest of the cast were in their early 20s or older. The show had moved on from childish things and there was no point to repeating the s1-s2 storylines (first love, school is evil, yada yada) just for Dawn's sake. Hence, most of her on-screen interaction in s5 and especially s6 was with her extended family, and all the things the scoobies themselves had gone through at the same age for the most part either took place off-screen or didn't happen at all. We got to see her have friends and even a love interest now and then, but... whenever Buffy or Xander or Willow interact with someone new (whether it be a love interest, a friend, or a boss) it brings that character into the story. Whenever Dawn interacted with someone new, however, it tended to take Dawn out of the story since there was no room for her friends and her interests in BtVS (except for briefly in “All the Way”, “Lessons” and “Him”, neither of which really led anywhere continuity-wise).

DAWN: I'm sleeping over at Janice's.

In other words, Dawn was doomed to be a bit out of phase with the story and we only ever got to see certain sides of her. But as she grew up, she did indeed come to carve out a niche of her own. By s7, Dawn had found a role which she herself – being a bit of a geek – characterized as "Watcher Jr", including the slightly stiff relationship with the younger Slayers. I absolutely love s7 Dawn; she's smart, she's brave, she's... still pretty klutzy, but she's in there. And you’d think that after that, being officially an adult by 2004, she’d be allowed to become a fully-fledged member of the gang; to continue the contributions she did in s7, have arcs of her own, continue growing as a character rather than just as a seismological phenomenon.

So what happens in season 8? For undisclosed reasons, she gets turned into a giant, and once again she's just a case to be solved. Every discussion about her inevitably centres around her size. Every discussion with her includes visual jokes about how people have trouble even talking to her because of her size, let alone interact with her in any normal way (well, unless you want to believe some theories, haha). Forget the last three seasons; now she's just a giant, end of story.

BUFFY: Yeah, I'm also a person. You can't just define me by my Slayer-ness. That's ... something-ism.

Compared to what Joss did with Dawn at the start of season 5 there is, IMO, one important difference. By introducing Dawn the way he did, he made her part of the story right away and forced both the fans and the characters to deal with her existence. There was a very strong feeling of “what the hell is going on here?” running through every scene she was in, which were quite a few since her status as Buffy's kid sister who had to be protected meant that she turned up everywhere, yet we didn't know who or what she really was. Plus, as with most character introductions in early s5, it came with a big dose of character depth. In season 8, I don’t see that; I see a reduction of character depth which is hopefully temporary, and she's once again written out of the normal story (literally, since she doesn't actually fit indoors), as if she were still 14 and didn’t have anything to contribute apart from needing help. (And OK, the occasional witch-stompin'.)

There’s an irony here, which relates to the very nature of storytelling. In order to care why and how things happen to a character, we have to care about the character. That’s what makes them more than just plot devices. And by taking the girl who loved math, the girl who handed the weapon to Amanda, the girl who bragged about stealing lipstick, the girl who sat watch over Tara for hours, the girl who stood up to Spike without blinking, the girl who couldn’t cheerlead to save her life, the girl who refused to leave her dead mother to a poltergeist or say goodbye to her sister before the big battle... and turning her into the case of the week year, whose only function is to get us to wonder “Why the hell is Dawn a giant?”, Joss is making me not care about the character anymore – including, of course, why she’s a giant.

Now, whatever the canonical status of the comics, I’m not going to forget that I used to like Dawn a lot. But my point, which you can generalise as you see fit, is that the love I have for the TV character is not something that's automatically transferred to the comic book character (the same can be said about the TV characters from episode to episode and season to season, though that came easier thanks to the visual continuity and, well, just general continuity). Each character has to keep earning that love, and by reintroducing her after several years, looking completely different, having already gone through something unknown that's changed her radically, I don't have the same attachment to the character anymore. Part of the reason I still cared when Willow went overboard in s6 was because I'd seen how she got there, the good and bad choices every step of the way. Same for Faith in s3/s4, Angel/Buffy in s2, Spike in s5/s6, Wesley throughout Angel... same for every major character arc in the 'verse. Remove the how of a character's development and the question why becomes moot; all you're left with is is a giant peeking in on the story from the outisde through the castle windows – what we might call an "out of" character. ;-)

ALYSON HANNIGAN: She’s a giant. I don’t know what’s going on. I have no idea who that is or where he’s going, but awesome!

In short, I would like to see Dawn de-gigantofied and actually take part in the story again ASAP. She’s already been the helpless maiden in distress once; that was six years ago. Whaddyasay we have her grow up again? THAT would be awesome. Ish.



I promise my next meta will be less negative.

Comments

[deird1]

You seem to have a talent for making me agree with every word you say...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Hehe, thanks!

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I don't particularly disagree with anything you say, but I think I'm more patient than you. :-) We're only into episode 3, really - and both Xander and Faith have had much bigger parts than they had on the show in the later years, which I'm very pleased about. Something has to give... and one of those things has been Dawn's screentime so far. But she's supposed to be a major part of the next arc that's coming up, so I'm sure you'll get your wish eventually, and New Dawn will Fade.

Me, I'm still hoping we get a bit more character development for Satsu and Renee and maybe Leah too...

[shapinglight]

Me, I'm still hoping we get a bit more character development for Satsu and Renee and maybe Leah too...

Or any character development at all.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I would probably be more given to patience if there had been any sort of advancement of plot in the Dawn scenes we *have* gotten. But all of them just seem like...

- Dawn, you're a giant.
- Yes.
- Why are you a giant?
- Dunno.
- Do you like being a giant?
- No.
- If you knew why you're a giant, would you tell us?
- Maybe.
- OK. *end of discussion*

I just don't see any reason whatsoever for it to be dragged out - other than the fact that Joss needs a Giant Dawn in #17 or whatever, and won't even try to give her some sort of story before then.

[shapinglight]

Very , much agree. I also liked Dawn in season 7, especially in Potential, and this Giant - person is just not her at all.

And it's boring! Boring, boring, boring! And also, not in the least bit funny.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

And it's boring! Boring, boring, boring! And also, not in the least bit funny.

Hehe, that was my original post. Then it grew. :-)

[elisi]

I'm sat here kinda speechless, because this is pretty much what I'd write (word-for-word) if I had the time and inclination for writing about S8. I recently likened reading s8 to how Cordy must have felt, waking up in 'You're Welcome'... "You're what? And where? And who's a hero now?" And if you watched the first part of 'Home', and then skipped straight to YW, then there would be a lot of WTF-ness. The key to *that* situation was Connor of course, and Angel's deal with W&H for his sake. I feel that there must be a similar key to the s8 set-up - something that pushed them in the direction of Scotland, and high-tech equipment, and Willow going AWOL, and Giles becoming even greyer than he was before...

Or, as you said: Remove the how of a character's development and the question why becomes moot

Until I have that key, I just don't 'get' it. And because of that I don't care.

Now I like Dawn too - and, from something I read, somewhere - apparently she'll have a conversation with Xander in issue 10 (or 11?) and the big (ha ha! Pun!) secret will be out. But he's been there ALL THE TIME! Why wait so long? *throws hands up in frustration*

Whenever Dawn interacted with someone new, however, it tended to take Dawn out of the story
That is a brilliant point. ::applauds::

the girl who loved math, the girl who handed the weapon to Amanda, the girl who bragged about stealing lipstick, the girl who sat watch over Tara for hours, the girl who stood up to Spike without blinking, the girl who couldn’t cheerlead to save her life, the girl who refused to leave her dead mother to a poltergeist or say goodbye to her sister before the big battle...
I love that! *cheers Dawn onwards*

(This comment is very non-linear, sorry. I think my brain is not working properly. But this is - seriously - some of the best meta I've read on S8!)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Aww, thanks!

The YW comparison is excellent - except I'm still not convinced that we'll be getting that key, s8's Connor as it were. (And the use of "key" and "Connor" in the same sentence should in no way constitute a plot bunny for Giant!Dawn/Connor fic.)

But he's been there ALL THE TIME! Why wait so long?

Xander's been in Scotland so long his accent has gotten incomprehensible to Dawn?

DAWN: Xander, I have to tell you something.
XANDER: Aye, me wee bairn. What d'ye wish to impart?
DAWN: ...Nevermind.

[firefly-124.livejournal.com]

Whaddyasay we have her grow up again? THAT would be awesome. Ish.

I'm with you on that. I've always liked Dawn, particularly S7 Dawn, and I'd like to see more of *her* instead of just *more* of her.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Hehe, well put!

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm. On the one hand I disagree that we learnt much about Dawn’s character in the first four episodes between her introduction and the reveal about her origins. Real Me was a fun look at the old regulars from a new point of view but we didn’t learn much about Dawn herself, she was a rather generic irritating younger sister with a penchant for getting into trouble and cereal free gifts. On the other hand I also disagree that all she’s done so far is be the occasion for giant puns and whining. One of the advantages of the comics medium is that it’s so easy to flick back through her scenes and she actually reveals quite a lot about her back story and motivations. Talking to Xander in issue 2 it becomes clear that she’s unhappy/jealous about Buffy’s new sisterhood. Issue 4 confirms that she and Willow became close after Chosen and it’s easy to infer that part of that happened because Buffy was busy elsewhere. The whole strength not proportional to her size uselessness is also such a telling metaphor.

Since then she’s only had one scene but one that lets slip she’s not been spending her whole time in Scotland with Buffy but for part of it at least has been studying on some campus where she met Kenny. Also that she doesn’t actually believe her embiggenment is his fault, there’s something else she’s hiding. Both Buffy and Willow seem to have jumped to conclusions and the mystery thickens. If it wasn’t Kenny then what has Dawn been up to and I’m still interested in who Kenny is and the fact that everyone but Dawn is suddenly au fait with thricewise knowledge.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Which was me

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I totally agree - I can't say it had actually occurred to me that they had put Dawn right back into irrelevant, whiny child mode; I just found the giant character annoying. Stomping on Amy was the only interesting use that has been made of her so far.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Well, that and getting naked I didn't actually say that. ;-) Thanks for reading!

[snowpuppies]

I've not been reading the comics, so...Giant!Dawn?? is a bit puzzling to me, too.

But...

You know, I miss Dawn Summers.

Word. Totally. I hate that we didn't get to see more of her character "fleshing out" and growing up in BtVS, because, as you say, she was 'out of synch' with the older kids' life stages.

But I still loved her character. I'm glad to know there's at least one other person in the universe (and that may be all that there is!) that enjoyed Dawn, too. *g*

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I've not been reading the comics, so...Giant!Dawn?? is a bit puzzling to me, too.

And reading them doesn't really help either. :-/

I'm glad to know there's at least one other person in the universe (and that may be all that there is!) that enjoyed Dawn, too.

Right back atcha! *waves a huge Small Dawn banner*

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. I generally like the comics, and I enjoyed the situation with a giant Dawn, but enough already -- it was, max, a two issue storyline.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Exactly. If they want to stretch it out past that, they need to advance her storyline somehow.

[goodbyebird]

I know there's not a lot of dawn fans out there, but I absolutely loved her. To me, she would have been the biggest motivator for the show to go into another season. I really would have loved to have seen how she turned out.

Just a great, big-hearted, clever, rash and clutzy character. Hoping she'll play a bigger part in the future comics. I'd give them a break though, since they only have so many pages and a lot of characers to cover. Pretty much only Faith who's been hogging the last 3, so I'd give them 2-3 more issues before I start getting impatient.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Hoping she'll play a bigger part in the future comics.

Agreed. Bigger, not larger. ;-)

I'd give them a break though, since they only have so many pages and a lot of characers to cover.

Now, see, if they'd not had her in some issues at all for lack of space (and she does take up a lot of it), that I'd understand. But she's been in most issues so far and apart from sort of stomping Amy they've managed to do absolutely nothing with her. As elisi pointed out above, she's supposed to have a heart-to-heart with Xander in #10... but what's been stopping her before? I'd have patience if the story was going someplace. So far, from what I can tell, it's not.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Dawn is my second favorite female character after Buffy, and I agree with you that I want her normal-sized ASAP.

I understand though that it would be more confusing if they dealt with her giant-ness in the first arc with everything's that happening. Though I wouldn't mind if they took away all the Warren stuff and made the first arc Dawn centric.

I liked skinless!Warren as a scary image because he was, but I wish they used him differently. Maybe as a vision that Willow dreams about to get her all twisted with guilt and confused? In a four-issue-arc about Willow being haunted by her past, that would at least get the Willow-bashers to shut up about Willow not dealing with her crimes, as filled-with-guilt-uses-magic-when- necessary-Willow wasn't enough for them.

I'm a big fan of S8 so far, but GiantDawn and Warren were the season's low points for me.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Glad we agree on this, at least. :-D

Maybe as a vision that Willow dreams about to get her all twisted with guilt and confused? In a four-issue-arc about Willow being haunted by her past

That's an excellent idea. I would have loved to see that (actually, I'd have loved to see it in s7, but still). Can you imagine how much more they could have snuck into "Long Way Home" if they'd thrown out all the Warren crap?

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

I would like to see Dawn de-gigantofied and actually take part in the story again ASAP. She’s already been the helpless maiden in distress once; that was six years ago. Whaddyasay we have her grow up again? THAT would be awesome. Ish.
Yes please! The best parts of Seasons 5 - 7 were Dawn's interactions with Buffy and Spike IMO. It's bad enough that they wrote Spike out of Season Eight but to take Dawnie out as well is just... wrong. Buffy needs that annoying sister as a springboard and as her research buddy.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Buffy needs that annoying sister as a springboard and as her research buddy.

Agree perfectly.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Great meta! I'm still hopeful that season 8 will turn out to be great. But here you articulate very clearly why one can't just read the first few issues and *know* that season 8 will be great. Thanks!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[digopheliadug.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. Dawn was my favorite character on the show and the fact that she's not only barely present, but basically contributes nothing when she is present, sucks some of the life out of season 8 for me. I'm liking the extra Faith though. Whee!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

The Faith so far is good, agreed... I'm not swearing by it until I see the dismount in the next issue, though. ;-)

[tessarin.livejournal.com]

Well not much to add other than to say I agree with all of it but then I thought the story was boring and lame right off the bat.

The news that we'll not get to know until issue 10 reinforces my view. Although to be fair we've had the Faith diversion.

"(assuming that this is still a character-driven rather than plot-driven series)"

Well every single arc so far has been plot driven. If this was S1 then okay but S8?

I think the comic actually proves the opposite of what Joss & BKV think. Buffy is singularly unsuited to comics.

I mean why stretch it out? She can only talk to Willow and then basically says nothing. She probably only spills to Xander as he is back to supporto guy. The characters have one dimension less than the comic ;-)

As for why they don't show Dawn the symbol that derives from the need for characters to act stupid in order to serve the plot. Which itself subverts Buffy's subversion of the horror cliche of looking into the basement, or the helpless girl. If Dawn acted like S7 Dawn then probably she would solve the problem in no time.

Maybe he thinks if he resets Dawn we will not notice all the other character resets.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I think the comic actually proves the opposite of what Joss & BKV think. Buffy is singularly unsuited to comics.

At least this format with these writers - I'd have to agree with that. (Though, again, After the Fall seems to handle parts of the storytelling better than s8.) I'm sort of halfway looking forward to picking up the trade paperbacks 5 years from now, after the hype has died down, and see how they hold up when we can read all of s8 as one novel. But as it is... See my comment here (http://community.livejournal.com/newly_legion/31874.html?thread=251778#t251778) (just so I don't have to repeat myself, haha).

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Very well said!

Actually this sort of thing is a big part of why I've pretty much given up on Season 8...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I've decided that I'm giving it until the big reveal in #11 to shape up. If nothing's happened before then...

[deird1]

the girl who loved math, the girl who handed the weapon to Amanda, the girl who bragged about stealing lipstick, the girl who sat watch over Tara for hours, the girl who stood up to Spike without blinking, the girl who couldn’t cheerlead to save her life, the girl who refused to leave her dead mother to a poltergeist or say goodbye to her sister before the big battle...

Ooh! I remembered the other thing I really liked about her in season 7:

Dawn is the girl who is warned that her sister will turn on her. And, instead of worrying about it, she just calmly starts carrying a tazer...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Dawn is the girl who is warned that her sister will turn on her. And, instead of worrying about it, she just calmly starts carrying a tazer...

o_O

Would you believe that never even struck me before? I'd always assumed the tazer was just conveniently lying around in the car... I *love* that explanation! (And it makes me miss Dawn even more.)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I suppose Joss has initially planned Dawn as a one-season character while season 5 has been regarded as the last one. But when the show went on it became impossible to kill Dawn without undermining Buffy's sacrifice in The Gift, so Joss kept her on the show. I remember rumors that Dawn's initial arc in season 6 was her discovery that she's actually Faith's sister, but writers couldn't develop that arc because of ED's unavailability. (Don't know if it's true).

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I remember rumors that Dawn's initial arc in season 6 was her discovery that she's actually Faith's sister

Hmmm, that's interesting. I'd never heard that before - I've seen it in fic, but only as an AU. It makes some sort of sense, since Faith is THE Slayer by season 5, but at the same time... Dawn is so obviously a Summers in every way (not to mention that the entire s5 finale rests on the idea that she's Buffy's biological sister/clone) that I'm not convinced they could make it work. But hey, that's what I said about Warren too! ;-)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said here.

Giant Dawn is just one stupid one note joke that's gone on for far too long and doesn't seem to have any 'punchline'.

Sorry Joss, I just don't see the fascination I'm afraid.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Thought you might... ;-)

doesn't seem to have any 'punchline'.

Or worse, there'll be what Joss thinks is a big reveal in #10 and it won't work because nobody really cares anyway. I honestly can't think of any explanation for Dawn's gianthood - hinted in the story so far or not - that'll be anything but yawnsville. Unless she's the commander of Twilight and there's a secret command central in her giant head...

[spygrrl76.livejournal.com]

Incredibly well said!! I followed the link from elisi's journal and I'm so glad I did. You've encapsulated my feelings about Dawn in the comics perfectly. (Get out of my head! lol)

The part that struck me in particular was:

I see a reduction of character depth which is hopefully temporary, and she's once again written out of the normal story (literally, since she doesn't actually fit indoors), as if she were still 14 and didn’t have anything to contribute apart from needing help.

The reduction of her character is exactly what is driving me nuts. I too really grew to love (and relate) to Dawn and was please with the character she developed into so it's completely a shame that she seems to be disappearing in the comic. She became such an integral member of the gang by S7 I don't understand why she's been marginalized now. I really hope we get answers and worthwhile ones soon.

Thanks for posting this great commentary.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you! (I love that icon, btw; the anchovy song is one of the greatest moments of the entire series, haha.)

[kseenaa.livejournal.com]

Agreed, agreed... and agreed. :-) This goes to my memories, pronto!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Glad you liked it ! :-)

Meta: Big Dawn Coming

[chianazhaan.livejournal.com]

Wow, you have a good understanding on why a character matters...or doesn't. I sums up my opinion on Giant!Dawn rather well. If Giant!Dawn couldn't be bothered to tell Buffy or Willow, why should I bother caring about her situation.

Thanks.